- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Mac trigger warning - His Pels Players Trade Values
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Dyson is going into the 3rd year of his contract, and we have to make decisions pretty soon on re-signing him. If he has this value you're projecting, we might not be able to take the risk on the contract. That's why so many people have argued that if Dyson does develop, it won't be for the Pelicans. That's the problem with taking guys who need so much development who don't take major steps in year 2. Your argument about patience has merit, but it ignores the fact that we don't have infinite time to be patient.
Completely agree. Dyson I believe will be a good player but theres a high likelihood it wont be with pels. Similar to a guy like NAW.
1
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:20 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
I'm not saying that his skills haven't increased, but can you point to his improvement from year 1 to year 2? What makes you believe that he's going to have a vast improvement in the next 2 years? Again, I'm not saying that he won't, I'm just curious why you think that he will
Its honestly very difficult to and it speaks to how fricking terrible our franchise is ran. We continuously refuse to play and develop our young players. There was a certain point last year that we all knew a championship wasn't realistic. Those are the times you have to start playing your rookies.
Hawk/ Dyson should have played way more than they have. The other aspect is obviously having a competent team/ identity. We don't/ haven't.
quote:
What makes you believe that he's going to have a vast improvement in the next 2 years?
This is my favorite part of this post. I don't think he will make any "vast improvement"
It's hard to "vastly improve" from an elite defender at 21 y/o lololol. That's why yall's arguments crack me the frick up.
Oh his offense? Again no "vastly improvements"... The dude needs to average 6 extra pts per game. Half is shots are layups/ floaters that pop out. We don't need him to shoot 3's. He already exceeds whatever bullshite low arse expectations y'all have if even 1/3 of those rim in.
Again y'all are phrasing it like "extreme makeover/ become a complete new player" when he is a 21 y/o elite defender....
Y'all are already undervaluing him. I don't have to sit here and argue why y'all THINK I'm overvaluing him...
This post was edited on 6/19/24 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:31 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
We don't need him to shoot 3's.
Yes we do and so does every other team in the league. You compare him to Herb- but the reason Herb has become so valuable is that he shot 42% from 3. In today’s league, Dyson needs to learn how to shoot the 3 at least league average. If he doesn’t good defensive teams will make Dyson an offensive liability on this team.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:34 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
This is my favorite part of this post. I don't think he will make any "vast improvement"
It's hard to "vastly improve" from an elite defender at 21 y/o lololol. That's why yall's arguments crack me the frick up.
Oh his offense? Again no "vastly improvements"... The dude needs to average 6 extra pts per game. Half is shots are layups/ floaters that pop out. We don't need him to shoot 3's. He already exceeds whatever bullshite low arse expectations y'all have if even 1/3 of those rim in.
Again y'all are phrasing it like "extreme makeover/ become a complete new player" when he is a 21 y/o elite defender....
Y'all are already undervaluing him. I don't have to sit here and argue why y'all THINK I'm overvaluing him...
If he's going to get a good amount of minutes, he needs a vast improvement on offense. Otherwise he's Matisse Thybulle, who is a fine situational bench player, but that's all that he is.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:38 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
You compare him to Herb- but the reason Herb has become so valuable is that he shot 42% from 3
You are right, Herb had nearly 0 value last year....
I'm arguing Dyson is right on pace value wise because he is an elite defender with offensive issues at 21 y/o.
Y'all are arguing that even though Dyson is an elite defender at 21 y/o he is overvalued because of his offensive issues.
And at the same time completely continuing to ignore age/ progression as a factor
The obvious truth here is that y'all undervalue defense and want to circle jerk about 3pt shooting as the only measurement of under/over valued.
This post was edited on 6/19/24 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:39 pm to Dantheman504
Just say
"I value shooting > defense and anyone that doesn't equate to my shooting standards regardless of age or skillset is overvalued in my opinion"
and let's move on.
"I value shooting > defense and anyone that doesn't equate to my shooting standards regardless of age or skillset is overvalued in my opinion"
and let's move on.
This post was edited on 6/19/24 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:43 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
The obvious truth here is that y'all undervalue defense and want to circle jerk about 3pt shooting as the only measurement of under/over valued.
I think most this board and the NBA value 3 pt shooting AND defense. Its not one or the other. Problem is regardless of age, if you are deficient in either it’ll be difficult for you to be an impact player in the league.
quote:
I'm arguing Dyson is right on pace value wise because he is an elite defender with offensive issues at 21 y/o. Y'all are arguing that even though Dyson is an elite defender at 21 y/o he is overvalued because of his offensive issues.
So you’re saying at some point Dyson will shoot near 40 percent from 3? 4 years from now? So just curious how do you think we approach his second contract with him being a first round pick?
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:52 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
So you’re saying at some point Dyson will shoot near 40 percent from 3? 4 years from now? So just curious how do you think we approach his second contract with him being a first round pick?
Yes I think Dyson CAN hit 40% by 4 years. Will he? Not sure. Did Herb do it in 3 as a WORSE overall offensive player? He did. Does that make me crazy for thinking he can? No it fricking shouldn't.
How do we approach the 2nd contract of an Elite NBA defender with offensive issues? Hmmm maybe with like a 12mil contract @ 4 years.
That sounds great! Would help us as a whole lot, won't kill cap space, every team would prob want that guy too on a friendly deal!! Elite defender on a friendly contract that just sounds terrible.
Its so weird to see fans watch Herb and go through that process the last 3 years only to have such negative views and opinions on Dyson.....
This post was edited on 6/19/24 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:58 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
How do we approach the 2nd contract of an Elite NBA defender with offensive issues? Hmmm maybe with like a 12mil contract @ 4 years.
Just to be clear is that 12 mil total or per year? You realize he currently makes 6 mil per year. If its 12 mil total I doubt hes taking a paycut. Otherwise Im assuming you’re ok paying him 12 mil per year then.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 12:59 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
ts so weird to see fans watch Herb and go through that process the last 3 years only to have such negative views and opinions on Dyson.....
I just want to be clear here, you think I have a negative opinion of Dyson because I think that Hawk has roughly equal value as him
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:24 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
You realize he currently makes 6 mil per year. If its 12 mil total I doubt hes taking a paycut. Otherwise Im assuming you’re ok paying him 12 mil per year then
Well when his contract expires (AFTER 2 seasons) he will be @ 8mil per year.
So yes if he continues a Herb like projection even with struggling offense I'd be more than happy to give him 12 mil a year in 3 years.....
We thought Herb was going to get paid more than what he currently makes and that's before he even improved his 3pt shot....
So again y'alls "surprise" at that contract after +2 additional years experience just proves the undervaluing/ hater point of view.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:30 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
I just want to be clear here, you think I have a negative opinion of Dyson because I think that Hawk has roughly equal value as him
No.
If Hawkins is a trash defender and Dyson is a trash shooter than that's a wash.
You think Hawkins CURRENT offensive abilities are > Dyson's current elite defensive abilities.
Furthermore: You somehow believe that Hawk has a higher chance of his defense becoming average than Dyson's offense becoming average.
(Defense is harder to learn if you weren't aware)
Furthermore: You value Hawks offensive abilities to continue to get better and better while discounting what an already elite defender at 21 can excel to.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:31 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Completely agree. Dyson I believe will be a good player but theres a high likelihood it wont be with pels. Similar to a guy like NAW.
NAW didn’t show anything while he was here and was given multiple chances. You don’t just let go of someone that is already elite on one side of the ball. Not similar at all.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:33 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Defense is harder to learn if you weren't aware)
Says who???
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:34 pm to shel311
quote:
Than Herb, yes. Than Lauri, no. Because Lauri produces more. He's just extremely dependent on others to get him shots, much more than you seemed to realize initially
So Trey is worth a lot more than Herb value wise even tho he will be on a much better contract soon and Herb has produced more than him to date but Trey is not worth as much as Lauri even tho Lauri is more dependent on others to score his offense and is worse on defense than Trey. Makes perfect sense…
This post was edited on 6/19/24 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:35 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
NAW didn’t show anything while he was here and was given multiple chances. You don’t just let go of someone that is already elite on one side of the ball. Not similar at all.
I understand what you’re saying but I meant similar to NAW I don’t think Dyson will realize his full potential with the Pelicans. NAW did show flashes of offensive/defensive potential here but nothing like the player he became with wolves. I just think the Pels wont hold on to Dyson long enough for him to reach his potential here.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:37 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
You don’t just let go of someone that is already elite on one side of the ball.
Don't waste your breathe. They don't value defense or what the word "elite" means.
He's just another NAW lol
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:37 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Furthermore: You somehow believe that Hawk has a higher chance of his defense becoming average than Dyson's offense becoming average.
(Defense is harder to learn if you weren't aware)
Furthermore: You value Hawks offensive abilities to continue to get better and better while discounting what an already elite defender at 21 can excel to.
Our best player is ball dominant and brings gravity to the paint. I think a movement shooter who can create his own gravity is a great player to pair with our star. On the other hand, our star is also average on defense (may be a stretch), and we should pair as many great defenders around him as we can. There are situations where you would want more defense and situations where you would want more shooting.
In a vacuum, I think they are not far from each other in terms of value.
ETA: if you've read any of my posts on team building you would see that I definitely value defense. I just don't place a ton of value in perimeter defenders who can't also shoot.
This post was edited on 6/19/24 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:40 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I don’t think Dyson will realize his full potential with the Pelicans. NAW did show flashes of offensive/defensive potential here but nothing like the player he became with wolves. I just think the Pels wont hold on to Dyson long enough for him to reach his potential here
Everything here is your own personal opinion.
They 100% will want to hold on to the 21 y/o elite defender because they aren't retarded.....
The best part is that if his offense doesn't improve much then it just means an elite defender on an even cheaper contract! Holy shite that just sounds absolutely terrible!
Posted on 6/19/24 at 1:40 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I just think the Pels wont hold on to Dyson long enough for him to reach his potential here
And you maybe right, and it’ll be just another added to the long lists of total frick ups Griff has made in dealing with this roster and something else for me to bitch about on here.
Page 5 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News