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re: Lonzo v Moore

Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:40 am to
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61564 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:40 am to
quote:

Lonzo v Moore was a thread before last season why not revisit?


I think a lot of the bewildered push back you're running into is because the circumstances did change quite a bit to make this not even much of a discussion. Lonzo will probably start and we paid AD trade equity to get and keep him.

Moore is a solid player but we have enough depth now that he's become a bit of a luxury. If JJ is going to be the first guard off the bench and Ingram is going to run the 2nd unit, who do you have out there with them? Every time Moore dribbles I get nervous, I think I'd rather Frank instead of Moore

Frank
Redick
Ingram
Kenrich
Okafor

I wouldn't be upset if Moore got those minutes over Frank, I just think Frank fits better now and should be much better as he grows. That's another strike against Moore, he limits the minutes Frank would be getting. That's not even taking NAW's development minutes into consideration.

So this year it's really not even a question. Lonzo is much more important to the Pels than Moore.
This post was edited on 7/8/19 at 10:41 am
Posted by P bean
br
Member since Dec 2006
4073 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:40 am to
Good input, but your still underrating Moore. And overrating Lonzo. Lonzo has a lonnnggg way to go to be an allstar, although he has the potential for it and Moore doesnt.

Lonzo’s shooting numbers dip backwards again and his value goes down in todays NBA. Last season it got better.

Moore is what he is a 2nd team 3 point specialist with some versatility. But that is very valuable in todays NBA when shooting as well as he does. 42% from 3 is nothing to sniff at.

Thanks for making an actual post though, and not some ill informed bullshite.
This post was edited on 7/8/19 at 10:41 am
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17935 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:42 am to
I am really hoping that J.J. Redick can actually help teach our younger guys how to shoot 3s better.
Posted by P bean
br
Member since Dec 2006
4073 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:43 am to
Agreed tigerinatl. Revisiting this argument from last year I had to switch from Moore to Lonzo.

But at the same time, we are really gonna need Moore to stretch the floor for Lonzo etc, and we dont have a lot of 3 shooters to begin with.

So it seems obvious at first glance, but its hard to say. What if Ball gets hurt againor his shooting returns to abysmal? Moore has been more reliable/less injury prone.
This post was edited on 7/8/19 at 10:44 am
Posted by P bean
br
Member since Dec 2006
4073 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:45 am to
Exactly bro, I agree. Miller and Moore should sponge up everything they can from JJ. He is the perfect model for how they can last/keep improving and making it todays NBA. They should be better just from JJ being on this team.

Griffin is a genius. He’s got Jrue and JJ to lead ball/hart/moore and co.

And he got Favors to lead our bigs.
This post was edited on 7/8/19 at 10:47 am
Posted by P bean
br
Member since Dec 2006
4073 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:49 am to
Pedro, agreed, I didnt want him at all last year, but the fit this year is there. His shooting has to get better though or his value bottoms out. Last year was a small improvement, but not much.
Posted by HEAVYtiger23
Hammond
Member since Mar 2019
443 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 11:03 am to
And youre right, I like Moore a lot. He is due 8 million plus this year though and we will not resign him bc we have other bench shooters and will soon not have the playing time for him to truly contribute or earn his dollar amount. So i see us doing what we did with Niko and getting any kind of assets for him no matter how minimal as long as it sheds salary as well unless injuries happened prior to one of our other guards forcing him to give more meaningful minutes or if we are truly in the playoff hunt. Hes a solid defender and Great shooter but undersized and not as respected as a shooter as a Reddick and only has one year left on his deal so hes in the typical spot of solid role player on a contract that can be moved at the deadline for cap relief and seconds for a team that he doesnt have him in our future plans. With all that said ill miss him and he could start again on certain teams that are shooting desperate such as a Detroit. But we are in a new era of Pelicans Basketball that his age has surpassed and doesnt have the Reputation as mentor and leader as much as just being a good teammate. And the mentor positions are filled by players like Jrue, reddick, and Hopefully Favors.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61564 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 11:09 am to
quote:

we are really gonna need Moore to stretch the floor for Lonzo etc


Volume >>>> Proficiency when it comes to creating space. Moore is a better all around player than Darius Miller, but if you're just looking for spacing, I'd play Miller over Moore. Defenses are aware of and respect Miller more because he's a volume shooter. Per 36 minutes Miller took 7.5 3s last season compared to 4.3 for Moore.

I wish there was a good stat to show gravity and how teams guard, or don't guard, a player. The best I can come up with is using the player tracking, 88% of Moore's 3s were Open or Wide Open. 75% of Miller's 3s were Open/Wide Open. For comparison 78.5% of Redick's 3s were Open/Wide Open.
This post was edited on 7/8/19 at 11:13 am
Posted by HEAVYtiger23
Hammond
Member since Mar 2019
443 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 11:11 am to
I dont think im overrating Lonzo though. I agreed with you as hes a player with FRINGE all star POTENTIAL. Not saying hes there yet by any means, and his injuries are a little worrisome for sure. But hes proved as an Excellent Deffensive presence and as good as our Defense can be this year and our fast style of play will help with his lack of shooting bc the amount of oppurtunities we will have with fastbreaks and guys cutting to the basket with a lineup that has so many good passers and a second unit filled with guys that can play decent amounts of minutes to give starters the rest they need, also while them being mixed in with the starters to provide the space needed when it does become an issue in certain games. IF Lonzo Healthy this year 10/10/8 is a realistic stat line i can see from him with the fact that he can guard up to 3 positions. Thats invaluable. If he can be a Tad more aggresive hes virtually a smaller Ben Simmons lol That dude Just Got Paid. He dont have to be a great shooter for us to have success but boy it sure would be nice.
Posted by Dantheman504
N/A
Member since Jun 2013
3610 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 11:13 am to
Simple answer is
Lonzo/ Jackson/ NAW
Jrue/ Redick / Hart/ Moore
Ingram/ Williams

Last year Etwaun started at both SF and SG at times. This year he is our 3-4th option of the bench. He has averaged 29 min the last 2 season and will only average 10-15 now. We just don't have the room for him compared to the type of player we could trade for with around 15 mil through current assets. Lonzo on the other hand has a lot to prove and will be playing a lot of meaningful minutes. Could he eventually be on the move if things dont play out? Yeah of course but right now Moore is the player that could easily be moved with respect to what he has done for us the last few years.
Posted by P bean
br
Member since Dec 2006
4073 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 11:15 am to
No wayyyy Moore plays that little, we’ll hurt his trade value if we do that. Also we wont have solid three shooting on the floor.
Posted by P bean
br
Member since Dec 2006
4073 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 11:19 am to
Agreed it seems like if we move one of the two its Moore, especially with contract etc.

But Zo is more highly regarded and could bring back more in return. So its a toss up.

I hope Zo becomes an all star. That would be awesome. He’s not an allstar as a 10/10/8 guy tho. Maybe if he gets to 18/10/8.

At any rate thanks for the input.

Its a solid post and thanks for not acting like this is a bullshite discussion like some of these other fools. Its not. Several scenarios could happen with both of these guys.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61564 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 11:19 am to
quote:

we’ll hurt his trade value if we do that


I really think he gets traded this summer. If they were just working on a "soluition" for Wood it seems like a simple trade or cut would have happened by now. Wood makes sense as part of a package with Moore.
Posted by P bean
br
Member since Dec 2006
4073 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 11:21 am to
I think youre overrating Hart and NAW.

NAW still has to develop, he wont be ahead of Moore next season unless he develops rapidly.

And Hart’s shooting was poor last season. His defense and size helps us though, at 6’5 he has versatility, but so does Moore, because he’s 6’3ish with a freaky 6’9 wingspan.

Theyre both more developmental than Moore at this point.

This post was edited on 7/8/19 at 11:22 am
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32617 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 12:06 pm to
Have you read this article?

LINK

I don't agree 100% with his proposed rotations, but who in that article do you think gets less minutes in order to give minutes to Moore? This article was written before the Miller deal too, and as ATL showed, Miller is a much more willing shooter than Moore. This team has a ton of off ball guards/wings now with the additions of Redick, Ingram, and Hart, Moore got as many minutes as he did in previous seasons out of a necessity that no longer exists.
Posted by P bean
br
Member since Dec 2006
4073 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 12:07 pm to
If moore is playing the way he has been the past few years, plus the expiring contract he could easily be kept, played the same no of minutes as he has been, and then traded at the deadline.

Alot depends on what happens. Lets say Hart and Zo are shooting better and NAW is developing quickly, then Moore becomes expendable.

Lets say we’re not in playoff contention, then Moore becomes expendable. No reason not to let zo, Hart, and Naw develop.

But if we are contending and zo, hart, and naw are progressing slowly shooting wise, Moore will definitely be kept, whether we let his contract expire or resign him.

Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17935 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 12:23 pm to
Bean, you're also ignoring that we brought Melli in specifically to shoot 3s when Zion is on the bench. He and Redick are the 3-pt specialists on this year's team. Redick will be out there with the 1st unit, and Melli with the 2nd.

We'll have Miller at the beginning of the season while NAW gets ready (very confident that NAW will be ready to play by the end of the season).

We don't need Moore.
Posted by JayJay2
cane sweeeeeeet tea, Luzianne
Member since Jul 2010
15359 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 12:28 pm to
You're really overrating Moore, and for your sake, I hope they keep him.
Posted by Dantheman504
N/A
Member since Jun 2013
3610 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 12:34 pm to
Bean if we didn't re sign Miller I would understand your point but he is on the roster and so is NAW. There is no doubt in my mind Frank/ NAW will get all the backup mins at pg and Redick/ Hart will take all the min at SG. Moore will most likely play about 5 min at SG and 5-10 min at SF if needed. The other 5-15 min will be split with Miller. There is no room for him regardless of his playing ability the last few seasons. If we can flip him and Miller or another player for a guy like Covington or Iggy who can play a solid 20 min a night we will do it.
Posted by HEAVYtiger23
Hammond
Member since Mar 2019
443 posts
Posted on 7/8/19 at 12:52 pm to
No problem and not saying 10/10/8 is his max just saying i kindof expect that for this year whcich is like Prime Rondo Numbers when Rondo actually cared about playing defense. His ceiling id say is Ben simmons which is averaging like 16/8.5/8 which is all around value except Lonzo at least is a threat to shoot a 3.
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