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re: Is Fox more Westbrook or Morant?
Posted on 2/4/22 at 10:45 am to PELsu
Posted on 2/4/22 at 10:45 am to PELsu
quote:You started your conversation with "meh" which seemed to indicate that you thought there was no much difference between the two.
I wasn’t trying to say anything. I was saying exactly what I said. They aren’t that dissimilar in builds, especially considering Kira’s still young age. Otherwise, Fox is obviously a better player. And I think Kira can be a very good player. One that can hit an outside shot and will likely not finish his career at the exact same weight he is today. Was that so crazy?
1
Posted on 2/4/22 at 10:47 am to Bronc
quote:His salary is definitely the biggest deterrent, because if it does not work, you are now saddled with an albatross contract you would have to pay to unload. With Zion due for a max extension soon, it would be difficult to add anyone around Fox/BI/Zion.
Just so we have some larger context for what risk is involved with Fox:
Fox:
2021-22: $28,103,550.00
2022-23: $30,351,834.00
2023-24: $32,600,118.00
2024-25: $34,848,402.00
2025-26: $37,096,686.00
If all we get out of this guys is slightly better assist numbers and 33% shooting from three(which is up from his shooting this year and career average), Fox will be one of the worst contracts in the league.
It is potentially a lot of assets to consolidate into a player that hasn't really shown a ton of core growth for three seasons now. Especially when more proven, equally good fitting options are out there like McCollum, Sexton, or even going a under-the-radar route and taking to FA and picking up some combo of Tyus jones, Jalen Brunson, and McLemore, keeping our draft pick and then maybe making a msaller move. Building depth and synergy over high risk, high reward all in.
I'm not outright against Fox if the cost is only a lottery protected first and, say, Hayes + Naw + Sato, but beyond that, I'm not really wanting to risk a worse or no draft pick this year to jumpstart this particular risky experiment.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 10:52 am to NOSHAU
quote:
His salary is definitely the biggest deterrent, because if it does not work, you are now saddled with an albatross contract you would have to pay to unload. With Zion due for a max extension soon, it would be difficult to add anyone around Fox/BI/Zion.
Correct, and when you look at the alternative paths, Fox for me is the biggest high risk gamble out there, and Im not sure the reward is that much greater than some of the alternatives like McCollum(more proven, shorter contract, more natural fit), or even Sexton(likely cheaper to get and will be a smaller contract, already an elite shooter so if he doesnt work you can probably move him to a team that needs firepower). Heck, theres a reasonable argument to make that we might be better off targeting a Jalen Brunson and role players like Mclemore. Reserving flexibility and stacking up assets that look good in a trade for that more ideal fit.
IDK, I'm letting things play out but the more I think on it the more I talk myself out of Fox
This post was edited on 2/4/22 at 10:54 am
Posted on 2/4/22 at 10:54 am to Bronc
quote:I kind of like the Sexton option for that reason (and thinking the assets to acquire him would be much smaller). I am not s huge Brunson fan anymore. I would have loved him off the bench, but with the recency bias now, I think he will be overpaid this offseason.
Correct, and when you look at the alternative paths, Fox for me is the biggest high risk gamble out there, and Im not sure the reward is that much greater than some of the alternatives like McCollum(more proven, shorter contract, more natural fit), or even Sexton(likely cheaper to get and will be a smaller contract, already an elite shooter so if he doesnt work you can probably move him to a team that needs firepower). Heck, theres a reasonable argument to make that we might be better off targeting a Jalen Brunson and role players.
IDK, I'm letting things play out but the more I think on it the more I talk myself out of Fox
Posted on 2/4/22 at 10:56 am to Bronc
the salary aspect of this can't be ignored.
You add Fox and then Zion gets an extension, and you now no longer can do anything with the roster, so you pretty much have to assume that Fox is the final piece to the puzzle, and i don't think anyone thinks that's the case, even if he works out well and changes his current ways. Same goes for McCollum.
The Sexton risk is a lot safer like you said, b/c you can still go get someone like Brunson. You can't do that if you trade for Fox or McCollum, unless you want to be a tax team in 2024
You add Fox and then Zion gets an extension, and you now no longer can do anything with the roster, so you pretty much have to assume that Fox is the final piece to the puzzle, and i don't think anyone thinks that's the case, even if he works out well and changes his current ways. Same goes for McCollum.
The Sexton risk is a lot safer like you said, b/c you can still go get someone like Brunson. You can't do that if you trade for Fox or McCollum, unless you want to be a tax team in 2024
Posted on 2/4/22 at 11:04 am to NOSHAU
quote:
quote:
I wasn’t trying to say anything. I was saying exactly what I said. They aren’t that dissimilar in builds, especially considering Kira’s still young age. Otherwise, Fox is obviously a better player. And I think Kira can be a very good player. One that can hit an outside shot and will likely not finish his career at the exact same weight he is today. Was that so crazy?
You started your conversation with "meh" which seemed to indicate that you thought there was no much difference between the two.
Sorry, I was replying to Teddy saying Fox was bigger, longer and more athletic. I mean, Fox is 15 pounds heavier or so, so that part isn’t “wrong”. I just don’t think that’s the major distinction I would make between the two players, and Kira has the longer wingspan.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 11:06 am to NOSHAU
quote:
I think he will be overpaid this offseason.
I assumed that as well before I started looking at the teams that actually will have cap space, and, I'm no longer sure that's the case.
You are currently talking about Spurs, Pistons, Cavs, Magic, Hornets, Thunder, and Pelicans. Knicks could maybe make some moves to get under, but probably not a ton.
And none of those teams really have a need for Brunson. Knicks would be the only real threat I could see assuming they can create enough space.
But either way, and I think this speaks to Sexton too, I think the Pels are in a good position to acquire, or facilitate a sign and trade for someone like Brunson or Sexton or even Tyus Jones + Mclemore(or something), so I am hesitent to go all in at the deadline for such a high risk player that in all likelihood will still be there in the Summer.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 11:28 am to PELsu
quote:
Sorry, I was replying to Teddy saying Fox was bigger, longer and more athletic. I mean, Fox is 15 pounds heavier or so, so that part isn’t “wrong”. I just don’t think that’s the major distinction I would make between the two players, and Kira has the longer wingspan.
you obviously haven't watched both of them play if you think the difference isn't that big. 15lbs bigger is a big difference.
If they are the same height/wingspan, then why haven't we ever seen Kira do this?
You see Kira attacking Vucevic at the rim?
Kira does not have the same finishing ability that Fox does, and it's not even close. And i'm not just talking about dunks. Kira's nice plays at the rim are usually layups/dunks that happen b/c he blew by his defender and no one was left at the rim. He has a very hard time finishing over or around a rim protector. Fox doesn't have that problem. He could care less about just about any rim protector b/c he knows if he has a head of steam he can finish through them b/c of his athletic ability in the air.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 11:28 am to Bronc
So Fox's comps are Westbrook and Wall.
The two most untradeable contracts in the league.
And his biggest drawback is his contract.
I mean, is that not a HUGE red flag?
The two most untradeable contracts in the league.
And his biggest drawback is his contract.
I mean, is that not a HUGE red flag?
Posted on 2/4/22 at 11:29 am to ghost2most
I"m not trying to make the argument that we should go after Fox.
I don't want to trade for him.
I don't want to trade for him.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 11:36 am to ghost2most
I mean I'm with you.
I prefer to stand pat or at most make some smaller moves to utilize our expiring, TPE, but I'd rather see what the landscape in the offseason looks like because if not us, or unless the 6er's decide to settle( in whcih case we arent beating that offer anyway), McCollum and/or Fox will be there in the offseason, and we'll probably have more leverage and flexibility
I prefer to stand pat or at most make some smaller moves to utilize our expiring, TPE, but I'd rather see what the landscape in the offseason looks like because if not us, or unless the 6er's decide to settle( in whcih case we arent beating that offer anyway), McCollum and/or Fox will be there in the offseason, and we'll probably have more leverage and flexibility
Posted on 2/4/22 at 11:38 am to Bronc
quote:The difference being that Sexton's current team (Cavs) are not likely to bid high to keep him or lure him. I do not think that is the case with the Mavs. I think they are a threat to increase his contract value.
I assumed that as well before I started looking at the teams that actually will have cap space, and, I'm no longer sure that's the case.
You are currently talking about Spurs, Pistons, Cavs, Magic, Hornets, Thunder, and Pelicans. Knicks could maybe make some moves to get under, but probably not a ton.
And none of those teams really have a need for Brunson. Knicks would be the only real threat I could see assuming they can create enough space.
But either way, and I think this speaks to Sexton too, I think the Pels are in a good position to acquire, or facilitate a sign and trade for someone like Brunson or Sexton or even Tyus Jones + Mclemore(or something), so I am hesitent to go all in at the deadline for such a high risk player that in all likelihood will still be there in the Summer.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:13 pm to NOSHAU
Wall and Westbrook are on their 3rd contracts. During their second they were all pro level players and almost untouchable. Look what Westbrook went to the Rockets for, you have 4 years left before you have to make any decision with Fox. If you have the opportunity to trade (without giving up too much) for a player who is a difference maker at 24 years old in the pelicans biggest position of need the past 3 years you do it
This post was edited on 2/4/22 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:24 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
The difference being that Sexton's current team (Cavs) are not likely to bid high to keep him or lure him. I do not think that is the case with the Mavs. I think they are a threat to increase his contract value.
Maybe in the sense that the Mavs need Brunson more than the Cavs need Sexton. But go look at the Mavs cap sheet next year once Luka’s max extension kicks in. Their books next year are a nightmare. I think I remember reading that they realistically can’t offer Brunson more than 15/per and even that is stretching it.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:28 pm to Baron
Which is why there had/has been speculation they might even try and make a trade at the deadline. But because he is UFA, I imagine a lot of teams dont want to give up a player without a guarantee he's resigning.
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