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Started By
Message
I guess Buddy is out of the rotation for the time being
Posted on 11/19/16 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 11/19/16 at 10:14 pm
Sucks I really want to see him on the court
9
Posted on 11/19/16 at 10:27 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
Moore is losing minutes too. Frazier has had some big moments in the last 2 wins but he shouldn't be getting as many minutes as he is.
Posted on 11/19/16 at 10:31 pm to TigerinATL
Galloway getting some also
Posted on 11/19/16 at 11:08 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
Held will need to improve his off ball defense as he needs a lot of work there.
Posted on 11/19/16 at 11:27 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
I'm good with taking time to let Buddy settle. Last year he got up like 400 shots a day, even on gameday. He's gonna have to figure out his routine as a pro and how to find his stroke with fewer reps.
Some time off the floor should help that.
Some time off the floor should help that.
Posted on 11/19/16 at 11:55 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
if Galloway is playing like that, he should be in the game.
I agree with David Wesley, though. Buddy will be fine. It's not like he a problem with his release or something. They're just not dropping for him yet.
I agree with David Wesley, though. Buddy will be fine. It's not like he a problem with his release or something. They're just not dropping for him yet.
Posted on 11/20/16 at 5:23 am to TotesMcGotes
Yeah, probably the best thing for a guy with Buddy's personality is having to earn minutes by beating out combo guards that play decent on both sides of the ball. He'll work that much harder to become a complete player.
Posted on 11/20/16 at 6:47 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Yeah, probably the best thing for a guy with Buddy's personality is having to earn minutes by beating out combo guards that play decent on both sides of the ball. He'll work that much harder to become a complete player.
I disagree. First of all, this assumes he isn't working as hard as he can right now. All reports have been he is one of the hardest workers on the team since day 1.
And what is his personality? The guy is a top lottery pick and is 22 years old. There is no need to bring him along slowly like we did with AD.
I'm not saying he should be starting and playing 30 minute a game. But he needs to be getting 15 minutes a game at least. Yes, I agree his play hasn't been the best so far, but lifelong bench players (Frazier, Cunningham, and Galloway) should not keep him out of the rotation.
Posted on 11/20/16 at 7:33 am to NorthshoreTiger76
Monty's refusal to develop rookies was one of his downfalls. Buddy needs to be in the rotation.
Posted on 11/20/16 at 8:12 am to Dayman
quote:
this assumes he isn't working as hard as he can right now
It's not about how hard Buddy works but what he works on. If Buddy is going to be more than a scorer then having to beat out more complete players will force him to work on his whole game.
quote:
what is his personality?
A very coachable player and notoriously hard worker who improved his shot through hard work over multiple years.
quote:
There is no need to bring him along slowly like we did with AD.
There's no need to throw him to the wolves either. He started performing better when they lightened his responsibilities on offense. Asking him to do more than he's ready for won't help him either. It takes time to learn the NBA. Zach Lowe had a quote from the Pacers Myles Turner where he said his rookie year he was just guessing on what to do on defense every play and now he's studied enough film that he's not guessing as much any more. Again, it just takes time and I don't think Buddy guessing for 30 minutes a game is any better than him guessing 15 a game. In fact it could be worse as it might let him pick up bad habits if he gets too many reps when he doesn't know what he's doing.
quote:
he needs to be getting 15 minutes a game at least.
I agree, I'm not saying he shouldn't play, and with Hill/Cunningham sucking I think there are minutes for 3 guard lineups.
96 guard minutes and 12 3rd guard minutes.
32 - Holiday
20 - Moore
20 - Tyreke
20 - Galloway
16 - Buddy
Give Frazier Tyreke's minutes for now and after Tyreke gets traded and maybe Galloway gets traded with him to open up more minutes for a more ready to play Hield.
This post was edited on 11/20/16 at 8:18 am
Posted on 11/20/16 at 9:16 am to Solo
quote:
Monty's refusal to develop rookies was one of his downfalls. Buddy needs to be in the rotation.
This is a bullshite gripe against Monty. Developing and playing are not synonymous. Monty developed lots of young, unproven players. He also had to try to win games. Trotting out an awful Austin Rivers would not have made him into an all-star, but it would lose games.
Look at how many guys Monty turned from projects into established rotation players for better teams: Aminu, Vasquez, Lopez, Roberts, Rivers, Withey. Developing players wasn't his downfall, shitty roster management from above was.
This post was edited on 11/21/16 at 8:05 am
Posted on 11/20/16 at 9:24 am to TigerinATL
here's what we know-
Hield is a rookie
rookies usually suck
rookies need time to develop
development is not linear
it's been 2 games w/ reduced minutes for Hield
2 games that coincide w/ Holiday coming back and playing bench scorer role
2 games that the Pels have won over better teams
we get to the ASB and Hield is seeing this little action, time to start questioning things. assuming Gentry has "ruined" or abandoned Hield at this point, under these circumstances, is a bit much
Hield is a rookie
rookies usually suck
rookies need time to develop
development is not linear
it's been 2 games w/ reduced minutes for Hield
2 games that coincide w/ Holiday coming back and playing bench scorer role
2 games that the Pels have won over better teams
we get to the ASB and Hield is seeing this little action, time to start questioning things. assuming Gentry has "ruined" or abandoned Hield at this point, under these circumstances, is a bit much
This post was edited on 11/20/16 at 9:28 am
Posted on 11/20/16 at 9:44 am to corndeaux
quote:
assuming Gentry has "ruined" or abandoned Hield at this point, under these circumstances, is a bit much
I don't think anyone has assumed this. What's concerning is back to back under 10 minute games. Couple that with Tyreke coming back, and it is even more concerning.
Meanwhile, Cunningham plays 43 minutes last night (compared to 6 for Buddy). There are ways to get Buddy 15 minutes per game. If the 5-10 minute per game turns into a trend over the next couple of weeks, we have a problem.
Don't get me wrong, Frazier and Galloway are playing better than Buddy. The problem that arises is whether to play mediocre players in attempt to grab the 8th seed, and likely fail. Or play Buddy in attempt to grow for the future.
If I was Gentry, I'd play Frazier and Galloway. If I was a new coach with a few years to build the team, I'd play Buddy 100%. That is the situation the team finds itself in.
This post was edited on 11/20/16 at 9:46 am
Posted on 11/20/16 at 9:48 am to corndeaux
if hields shot was looking better he'd play more
this is on buddy not gentry
a good role for a 3 pt shooting rookie would be to come in in spots and hit 3 pt shots
he hasn't done that
I don't know if gentry is any good or not but to expand on what corndeaux said here are some other things we know:
1) Davis has taken an undeniable leap forward. He is stalking his man on offense, his footwork has greatly improved, and he finally is taking on the load of alpha dog. That's exactly what gentry said he would make happen
2) gentrys offense is critically dependent on playmaking at the point. Enter holiday. It just doesn't work without it
3) with Davis they must hit open jump shots. when they do they can win. Buddy needs to step up and when he does he will play
this is on buddy not gentry
a good role for a 3 pt shooting rookie would be to come in in spots and hit 3 pt shots
he hasn't done that
I don't know if gentry is any good or not but to expand on what corndeaux said here are some other things we know:
1) Davis has taken an undeniable leap forward. He is stalking his man on offense, his footwork has greatly improved, and he finally is taking on the load of alpha dog. That's exactly what gentry said he would make happen
2) gentrys offense is critically dependent on playmaking at the point. Enter holiday. It just doesn't work without it
3) with Davis they must hit open jump shots. when they do they can win. Buddy needs to step up and when he does he will play
Posted on 11/20/16 at 11:41 am to Dayman
quote:
Cunningham plays 43 minutes last night (compared to 6 for Buddy)
entirely different positions and roles. many of his minutes, especially down the stretch, come as a 4 next to Davis. Hield doesn't offer the size/strength to fulfill that role nor to really defend the 3 at this point- if ever
if we want to gripe about minutes, look to Galloway and Moore. Frazier, despite his limits, does offer off the bounce juice that the Pels still need and Buddy doesn't have.
quote:
If I was Gentry, I'd play Frazier and Galloway. If I was a new coach with a few years to build the team, I'd play Buddy 100%. That is the situation the team finds itself in.
yes, it's a legit concern. they need to win games- not just to save jobs, but to keep Davis sane and motivated and to keep fans at least somewhat interested. it is just another symptom of an organization that has put itself in a bind via haphazard leadership.
but 2 games is still a bit early to sound alarm bells. we can't demand the team develop players, then throw our hands up because they aren't developing fast enough or in the way we want. let's come back at the ASB and see where things are. happy to revisit and eat crow if they bury Hield to chase 38 wins
Posted on 11/20/16 at 11:50 am to corndeaux
fans have a well deserved lack of confidence in this organization from benson on down myself included and the benefit of the doubt has been squandered. let's see where they take this now that holiday is back
I will eat my own crow about holiday as I never saw this impact from him coming
I will eat my own crow about holiday as I never saw this impact from him coming
Posted on 11/20/16 at 11:57 am to cgrand
quote:
fans have a well deserved lack of confidence in this organization from benson on down myself included and the benefit of the doubt has been squandered
agree 100%. every right to be skeptical and it's something to keep an eye on. just not time to panic yet.
they've played good, quality NBA basketball for 2 nights. we should cherish that. those nights have been few and far between for some time now and no guarantee it will last
Posted on 11/20/16 at 12:16 pm to cgrand
quote:
I will eat my own crow about holiday as I never saw this impact from him coming
If this is the healthy player we traded 2 1sts to get on a reasonable contract, that's justifiable. It's crazy how much better he's made this team. He's improved as a player since we obtained him, and that's almost inexplicable with the amount of time he's missed.
Things also just seem to be so much easier for Davis right now. Davis is playing at an absurd level this year so far, and his offensive game has grown exponentially. There's a piece on BSS where they harp on his defense. I just simply don't get it. The guy is fricking incredible. The DRating on/off backs their tale up, but I just don't see how watching him play. His ability to switch, protect the rim, and rebound is just other worldly. I tend to think the fact you have Hill/Galloway replacing Frazier/DC vs crappier players is enough of a swing that of course it makes Davis look worse. Davis/Jones combo is also just finding its legs.
I'm the one that the "ruin" comment is directed at for Buddy. I'm not saying Buddy is screwed. I'm just saying that there's a general lack of confidence in him right now, and he's in his own head. I understand it too. I don't see any pattern to his PT other than watching him get yanked almost immediately for screwing up every once in awhile. My frustration comes where Frazier plays 18 minutes in the second half while getting constantly abused by Thomas and contributing nothing on the other end of the floor. His 8/3/6 stat line did not move for the longest time. I don't understand the leash for mediocre talent, and I like Frazier a lot. When he's aggressive like the last 2 games, his impact is much different than playing Ish Smith type ball. He's a much better scorer than Ish and shouldn't be letting teams sag off him and play passing lanes. It just feels Hield is held to different standards cause "rookie".
Posted on 11/20/16 at 12:23 pm to Jester
quote:
Look at how many guys Monty turned from projects into establishe'd rotation players for better teams: Aminu, Vasquez, Lopez, Roberts, Rivers, Withey. Developing players wasn't his downfall, shitty roster management from above was.
You can't give Monty credit for these players going to other teams and taking the leap. That's just nuts. If anything, it works the other way around. He had more to work with than we thought. Lopez went from a defensive liability to a stallwart in Portland. Aminu finally developed out there. Vasquez plays significant minutes on a good team. We'd kill to get Withey back for Frenchy.
Posted on 11/20/16 at 12:33 pm to ShamelessPel
hield looks lost on the floor right now and that's ok
if his shot was falling he could come in and do the microwave role but it's just not happening at the moment. Let him regroup and watch and practice and let's see what happens
he hasn't earned minutes thus far
if his shot was falling he could come in and do the microwave role but it's just not happening at the moment. Let him regroup and watch and practice and let's see what happens
he hasn't earned minutes thus far
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