re: Holiday and turnovers

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He'll get it together. His career average is 2.7 TO per game and he averaged 3.7 last season. There's no reason to believe he'll average more this year than last year. He'll regress to the mean eventually.

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I wasn't making any judgement of him, just clarifying that statement. He needs to be better than 2:1 if he's to be a good point guard, which I think he can be.

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Dude, half of Jrues turnovers tonight were not even his fault. Davis fumbled 2 passes IIRC and Chalmers had a great strip while Jrue was in the middle of a euro step. The only bad pass he had was when he drove into the middle of Miamis defense and decided to throw away.

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Dude, have you watched any games? Last night, he had two occassions where he dribbled into a double team and tried cross court passes that were stolen. You would not expect that from a rookie. He has had two games with 8 turnovers this preseason and has not even played full minutes yet.

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These things are not reflected in box scores, etc., and some spectators miss them if their views are obstructed by other players or it happens quickly, but you are correct. Remember, passing invites additional turnovers, so looking at assists and turnovers is more informative for distributors. His numbers this preseason are: (3,8), (6,4), (9,5), (6,2), (8,2), (8,8), (6,5). This totals to (46, 34). It's not what you want from a point guard in the long-term, but he was steadily improving his ratio for several games there and a 1:1 ratio is not outrageous to see from a good point guard (2:1 average) several times a season. Also, he has not strung together multiple bad games, at least in my estimation.

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1:1 ratio is not outrageous from a good point guard? That is terrible. 2:1 should be the minimum for a decent point guard. 2:1 last year would have placed him around 55th in a group with Barea, Stuckey, Shved, etc. He was at 2.14 last year on a bad team and needs to improve. Vasquez was 2.85. I would expect at least 2.5, which would be average. The preseason ratio of 1.35 is unacceptable. However, I am hopeful Monty will get him to calm down and improve that ratio.

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A 2:1 average is not a very good point guard. That's barely top 50 among PGs.

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2:1 is fine. Many players with higher ratios than that don't assist that much (and have fewer turnovers as a result of fewer attempts to assist) or just don't play that much.

When you toss out the low minutes guys (look at, say, over 24mpg and played over 41 games) and low assist guys (so at least 5 assists per game), the list shrinks. In terms of passing effectively, Holiday is midpack in that crew, which is basically the teams' designated ball handlers. He's not special, but he's fine at it and does other things well while he's on the court.

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My trade WAS NOT a mistake.

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Your trade?

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Let's all take a collective deep breath with Jrue. It's been 3 years of giving Monty a pass, but we wanna put the "failure" stamp on this trade before the first regular season game? Sheesh.

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I didn't call it a failure, but my statement is 100% accurate. It may well have been a mistake. If he keeps playing like he has, it was. That doesn't mean he will keep playing like he is. Just being objective. Sheesh.

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2:1 is fine.

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For a point guard, 2:1 is below average. A "good" point guard does not put up sub-par assist:turnover numbers. 2:1 would have ranked 44th among qualifying PGs last year. Not good.

Turnovers or not, that cat can ball.

2/1 I thought that was the TD to interception ratio.

About the cherry-picking: I am not trying to do that. I am trying to toss out clutter. To me, a guy who plays more than half the game (on average) in more than half the games is a relevant comparison, so I picked that for that reason. Then, I wants guys whose job it is to pass, so I set a floor for assists. This way, I'm not comparing him to passing big men like Gasol. I'm just saying how I'm arriving at my conclusion.

When I'm by a computer, I'll pull together a list from last season and that may make it clearer.

If you throw out players who played less than 24 minutes and averaged less than 5 assists, Jrue was 26th in assist ratio last season. As stated earlier, he was in the shoot first range of pgs (Westbrook, Curry, Lillard, etc...)