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Message
re: Game Thread: Pels at Mavs (NBA Cup Group Game) 7:30
Posted on 11/20/24 at 7:13 am to brmark70816
Posted on 11/20/24 at 7:13 am to brmark70816
quote:
Our coach can't shoot, rebound, our not turn the ball over.
Our coach can put together a game plan that attempts to make it easier for the players to get better shots.
We are still playing with an all star caliber player out there and Trey Murphy. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve not realized Trey was even on the court. We literally go multiple possessions when he’s in and he doesn’t touch the ball or even set a screen. How is that possible?
No ones asking for us to beat a healthy Mavs team. Losing by 40 is never acceptable.
2
Posted on 11/20/24 at 7:18 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Mike Brown is better
Willie was 6-0 vs Mike Brown last year lol
Posted on 11/20/24 at 7:59 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
We are still playing with an all star caliber player out there and Trey Murphy. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve not realized Trey was even on the court. We literally go multiple possessions when he’s in and he doesn’t touch the ball or even set a screen. How is that possible?
Why would more of the emphasis be on the players then, especially Ingram and Murphy. I'm not singling you out, cause you are majorly carrying the water for the game threads. But it's all harping on Green and how God awful he is. He's an issue, but is he more to blame than Ingram or any of the other players?
It goes back to the theory that we win despite him and lose because of him, which let's all the players off the hook totally. Which is crazy to me. They were horrible last night. Ingram went up against a Superstar. He should have been amped for the game. He wasn't good. I just can't understand how it keeps going back to the coaching..
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:06 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Willie was 6-0 vs Mike Brown last year lol
Just to be clear are you saying you rather have Willie Green than Mike Brown as head coach? I’m not sure many would stand on that hill with you.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:09 am to brmark70816
quote:
I can't imagine watching a game like this and thinking it's all about the coach. I just don't get it. We are playing journeymen major minutes and our 'star' or 'stars ' sucked. Our coach can't shoot, rebound, our not turn the ball over. Players just sucked last night..
But its not just about tonight. When games have been close with these same players there have been serious miscues by Willie that have cost us games. Again you can have bad players AND also have bad coaching.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:21 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Just to be clear are you saying you rather have Willie Green than Mike Brown as head coach? I’m not sure many would stand on that hill with you.
I don't really care. He's a bad coach when he doesn't have the greatest player of all time on his team
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:23 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
can’t tell you how many times I’ve not realized Trey was even on the court. We literally go multiple possessions when he’s in and he doesn’t touch the ball or even set a screen. How is that possible?
It's possible when you have no pg on the team that can create. Trey has to grow that part of his game. He's used to camping 30ft out too much
Again, the Pels are not playing with any pgs currently.
This post was edited on 11/20/24 at 8:26 am
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:27 am to brmark70816
What is preventing Willie from designing plays to get BI to recieve the ball inside the 3 point line?
Almost every single possession we dribble around, do nothing and then BI gets the ball 35' from the goal with 10-12 seconds left. The entire offense is BI please try to make somethign happen one on one from 35' out, or lets set some picks for BI so he can get the ball from 35' out.
I'll give a perfect example of a stupid arse play. We inbound the ball from the side on our side of the court. BI takes it out and passes it out near half court adn the ball swings around to the other wing. A screen is set for BI after he inbounds the ball so he can cut down low and go post up, but who was the defender that they were trying to get switched onto BI? It wasn't Kyrie, which would have made a ton of sense, no it was Luka. Do I want BI posting up 6'7" 230lb Luka? NO!
At any point in time did you see BI post up last night? Shouldn't we have seen at least one time where BI gets to post up Kyrie? That never happened.
Did we try to set screens to get BI the ball at the elbow? nah.
Every time BI touched the ball he was doubled. This has been happening every fricking game and we've done nothing to adjust to it. Stop giving BI the ball 40' out and going set a screen for him so he can be doubled. Get BI the ball inside the arc and let them double him from there and let him make a good decision kicking it out and we should be gettting a wide open 3 or an open lane to the rim, and I dont care if that guy getting the shot is Boston or Trey or even Jovante, all of them are capable of penetrating when the lane is wide open.
I watched the Cavs Celtics last night and the entire offense is centered around getting mismatches for their best players. It forces double teams and when that happens and you kick the ball out the defense starts scrambling and you should get a good shot. Or they don't double and you expect your star to go to work.
We play the switch everythign defense and we get cooked by star players consistently b/c they get the mismatch they want and take advantage of it. It's as if our coach has no idea that you can actually do this on offense.
It shoudlnt' be this difficult to design plays that gets BI inside the arc with Trey being in a spot that doesn't allow the defense to help.
Almost every single possession we dribble around, do nothing and then BI gets the ball 35' from the goal with 10-12 seconds left. The entire offense is BI please try to make somethign happen one on one from 35' out, or lets set some picks for BI so he can get the ball from 35' out.
I'll give a perfect example of a stupid arse play. We inbound the ball from the side on our side of the court. BI takes it out and passes it out near half court adn the ball swings around to the other wing. A screen is set for BI after he inbounds the ball so he can cut down low and go post up, but who was the defender that they were trying to get switched onto BI? It wasn't Kyrie, which would have made a ton of sense, no it was Luka. Do I want BI posting up 6'7" 230lb Luka? NO!
At any point in time did you see BI post up last night? Shouldn't we have seen at least one time where BI gets to post up Kyrie? That never happened.
Did we try to set screens to get BI the ball at the elbow? nah.
Every time BI touched the ball he was doubled. This has been happening every fricking game and we've done nothing to adjust to it. Stop giving BI the ball 40' out and going set a screen for him so he can be doubled. Get BI the ball inside the arc and let them double him from there and let him make a good decision kicking it out and we should be gettting a wide open 3 or an open lane to the rim, and I dont care if that guy getting the shot is Boston or Trey or even Jovante, all of them are capable of penetrating when the lane is wide open.
I watched the Cavs Celtics last night and the entire offense is centered around getting mismatches for their best players. It forces double teams and when that happens and you kick the ball out the defense starts scrambling and you should get a good shot. Or they don't double and you expect your star to go to work.
We play the switch everythign defense and we get cooked by star players consistently b/c they get the mismatch they want and take advantage of it. It's as if our coach has no idea that you can actually do this on offense.
It shoudlnt' be this difficult to design plays that gets BI inside the arc with Trey being in a spot that doesn't allow the defense to help.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:28 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
I don't really care. He's a bad coach when he doesn't have the greatest player of all time on his team
Hes been pretty successful with the Kings. He advocates for his players and has a clear offensive system. I don’t understand this defense of Willie. He never advocates for his players and again has no offensive system or identity. You clearly know hes one of the worst coaches in the league. But if you want to stand on the hill that Mike Brown is a worse coach- all power to you.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:34 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Hes been pretty successful with the Kings
His overall record is nearly identical to Willie's over the past 2 season.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:42 am to TeddyPadillac
I forgot they even had a game last night, see I didn’t miss much. Man I went from pretty much not missing a game and now, I don’t remember the last game I watched lol. Maybe the Brooklyn game
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:43 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
has a clear offensive system. I don’t understand this defense of Willie. He never advocates for his players and again has no offensive system or identity.
It's kind of hard to have an offensive identity when your star player is always out of shape or hurt.
It's almost as if Mike has fox and sabonis healthy and they compliment each other's styles.
I'm not saying willie is an elite or even good coach, but he's not as bad as yall are making him out to be. His teams plays excellent defense and win more than they lose when healthy. Zion out of shape for 70 games and he got you 49 wins last year.
Just lunacy that he's getting all this blame itt for the Pels struggles.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:52 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
His overall record is nearly identical to Willie's over the past 2 season.
Then sure Willie Green is just as good as Mike Brown but without any advocation of his players or an offensive system. Does it change the fact that Willie is still one of the worst coaches in the league?
Posted on 11/20/24 at 8:59 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
I'm not saying willie is an elite or even good coach, but he's not as bad as yall are making him out to be. His teams plays excellent defense and win more than they lose when healthy. Zion out of shape for 70 games and he got you 49 wins last year. Just lunacy that he's getting all this blame itt for the Pels struggles.
No one is shifting blame off injuries, Zion, or Griff. What we’re saying is the injuries have exposed Willie’s flaws even more. Willie has never had an offensive system- Zion and BI were healthy last year- explain to me their offensive philosophy? He never advocates for his players or team with refs- yes that matters especially for Zion and BI. He has set rotations that at times are mind boggling stupid. He continously has repeated issues in the clutch. We lost very close games to the lakers and nets where better coaching and use of timeouts might have helped. How many games do we go into where you feel this team has a coaching advantage? Very few times the past 3 years we have said Willie outcoached the other team. Even when healthy our stars dont get better under Willie. Thats just a fact. You can blame ONLY on them but coaching plays a big part as well. I give Willie credit when healthy they play good defense but that is his ONLY identity. In a NBA world where offense reigns supreme he has not been able to find a clear system or way of playing offensively.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 9:03 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
It's possible when you have no pg on the team that can create. Trey has to grow that part of his game. He's used to camping 30ft out too much
And I tried explaining this to people when we talked about his new contract worth and him replacing BI, which is/was a dumb take. Trey isn't BI, nor does he have anywhere near his game, and that's not a knock on Trey.
Trey needs to play with other good players to be really good. And that's ok. You see us running plays for Trey though? How often have you seen Trey set a screen for BI? That should be almost every single possession. We've made the same statement about Zion setting screens for BI. It just doesn't happen often, and literally no one understands why not. Instead Trey is camping out in the corner more often than not and not moving off ball, or we are giving him the ball 35' out and expecting him to do something that's not conducive to him playing effeciently.
Cam Johnson is playing on a shitty team. He scored 34 last night. He's scored over 20 in 5 of his last 9 and is shooting 40% from 3. Trey's only played 4 games, but hasn't scored 20+ and is shooting 28% from 3 and 38% overall.
I'm not trying to understate our poor roster right now as it obviously has a big influence on why we are so bad, but our coaching staff is doing our two best players ZERO favors in trying to help them get into better scoring opportunities.
I can't even see how often Trey has set a ball screen b/c he literally hasn't done it enough to qualify for the stat, and that's not a games played thing, that's a how many times per game thing. We've played 14 games and only 2 guys qualify, Theis and Missi, and the sad part is in 14 games they've set a grand total of 44 ball screens.
Trey has played over 150 possession this season and hasn't even set 10 ball screens.
Anyone know what our most efficient play was last season? The Trey ball screen for Zion. Why was it such an efficient play? b/c if you helped on the screen Trey would make you pay, and if you didn't help on the screen then Zion gets into the paint. i'll gladly take a Trey screen where BI gets to come around it and shoot an open elbow jumper without someone draped all over him (assuming the paint gets too clogged for him).
23% of our shots are coming with less than 7 seconds left on the shot clock.
For comparison, the Bulls are at 13.5%, Hornets 19%, Piston 19%, Grizzlies 15%, Sixers 23%, Suns 22%, Blazers 16%, Raptors 18%, Jazz 21%, Wizards 15%, and the only team wose than us is the Nets at 23.8%.
Yeah not having a PG hinders this, but our offense sucks regardless. We were at 19% last year.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 9:29 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I'm not trying to understate our poor roster right now as it obviously has a big influence on why we are so bad, but our coaching staff is doing our two best players ZERO favors in trying to help them get into better scoring opportunities.
I try to understand why this is under Willie. And the only thing I can gather is in the two places he did coach Golden State and Phoenix they had elite point guards who constantly created for other players in Steph and CP3. So there wasn’t a need as much for drawing up plays since those players constantly created. But that doesn’t mean its appropriate not to help your best players- I think Willie somehow misunderstood this in thinking that ALL players should be able to just create for themselves. I also think that was a huge reason to bring in Dejounte because I don’t think this coaching staff could be trusted to help Zion and BI get better scoring opportunities.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 9:49 am to Pels_Yaz
The Pelicans have been a franchise for what, 20 somethign years?
They've lost by 40+ 5 times in their history. 3 of them have been under Willie Green.
They've lost by 40+ 5 times in their history. 3 of them have been under Willie Green.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 10:12 am to TeddyPadillac
We lost by 40+ with Ingram and Murphy on the floor, who were both bad. If those guys are what we think they are, do they really need coaches to make them good or better? I just expect them both to shine in a game like this. That's the only way we have a chance.
Posted on 11/20/24 at 10:14 am to TeddyPadillac
You get it my guy
Posted on 11/20/24 at 10:19 am to brmark70816
quote:
If those guys are what we think they are, do they really need coaches to make them good or better?
It would help if coaching could put them in better situations where its easier to score. I agree there might be an expectation for trey and BI to be better but I also expect Willie to coach the team better too. Yes injuries are a huge part of the losses but that doesn’t excuse the bad coaching or the fact we need our main guys to play better.
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