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Posted on 2/7/12 at 12:05 pm to Sammobile
quote:
I love his mindstate, he has that killer instinct like MJ,Kobe etc(not comparing him to them talent wise). I think he could be a 25 ppg guy with his talent and bball iq.
Whoa. Carmelo Anthony is a 25 ppg guy, and look what he did in one year in college compared to what Barnes is doing in his 2nd.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 1:53 pm to floridatigah
What does Robinson bring that Landry or Millsaps doesn't? Or MKG that Ariza doesn't? In my opinion, you do not use the #2 pick for a solid pro. You look for a franchise changer.
Drummond and Barnes have superstar potential. Passing on one for another is fine. Passing on both for anyone else with the possible exception of Davis is crazy.
Drummond and Barnes have superstar potential. Passing on one for another is fine. Passing on both for anyone else with the possible exception of Davis is crazy.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 2:38 pm to mhasen1
quote:
Drummond and Barnes have superstar potential. Passing on one for another is fine. Passing on both for anyone else with the possible exception of Davis is crazy.
I'd pass on Robinson for Barnes because this is a draft so heavy at the 4 that we'll be able to get another good one with the Wolves' pick.
With Drummond, I'm less sure because I'm wary of his drive. UCONN's history of big men like Hasheem Thabeet doesn't inspire confidence either.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 2:41 pm to mhasen1
quote:
What does Robinson bring that Landry or Millsaps doesn't? Or MKG that Ariza doesn't? In my opinion, you do not use the #2 pick for a solid pro. You look for a franchise changer.
1) Carl Landry is not even close to the class of Paul Millsap.
2) If Robinson's rebounding ability translates to the NBA then he will prove to be a MUCH better rebounder than Landry. Historically, guys who rebounded in college rebound well in the NBA.
3) Millsaps PER is over 24. Pretty good.
This post was edited on 2/7/12 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 2/7/12 at 2:42 pm to teke184
quote:
UCONN's history of big men like Hasheem Thabeet doesn't inspire confidence either.
If Drummond comes out he would have spent what 8 months at UCONN? Doubt anything he did/learned there will have any effect on his longterm NBA career. Thabeet and Hilton's faults are their own I wouldn't put that on UCONN.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 2:42 pm to teke184
Honestly, I want no part of Drummond.
We should have a shot at at least one of these guys and this is who we should pick from (in this order imo).
Anthony Davis
Harrison Barnes
Robinson
We should have a shot at at least one of these guys and this is who we should pick from (in this order imo).
Anthony Davis
Harrison Barnes
Robinson
Posted on 2/7/12 at 2:45 pm to MrWiseGuy
It's impossible to measure completely, but I'm always a fan of "skilled" players over "athletes."
To me, guys with actual skills, can at least become some type of a contributor (even if they don't live up to lofty lotto ranks).
I'm not fluent enough with all the prospects to know which ones are which, but it wouldn't shock me if a guy like Jared Sullinger ended up being better than T-Rob, Drummond, etc., because he has actual skills, though he may lack their overall athleticism.
To me, guys with actual skills, can at least become some type of a contributor (even if they don't live up to lofty lotto ranks).
I'm not fluent enough with all the prospects to know which ones are which, but it wouldn't shock me if a guy like Jared Sullinger ended up being better than T-Rob, Drummond, etc., because he has actual skills, though he may lack their overall athleticism.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 2:46 pm to OBUDan
quote:
It's impossible to measure completely, but I'm always a fan of "skilled" players over "athletes."
This would have got you Okafor over Howard though.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 2:53 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
This would have got you Okafor over Howard though.
Well, maybe. From what I remember, Okafor's big knocks were a) size, b) lack of athleticism and c) zero offensive game.
Howard had the size and athleticism, coupled with the lack of an offensive game.
To me, they are both kinda similar, except that one is an exceptional athlete and the other is not. Neither is all that "skilled" even still.
NOTE: I'm sure I'm about to be berated for this point.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 2:59 pm to OBUDan
My best example (and it's really not that good of one) would be DeMarcus Cousins/Derrick Favors from 2 years ago.
I argued with a good buddy about this, because I thought Cousins was the best player in that draft class (ahead of Wall), thought he obviously wouldn't go ahead of Wall for a variety of reasons. My main reasoning is that yeah, Favors has all that elite athleticism, leaping ability, etc., but Cousins is such a skilled offensive player, I think he'll end up being better (if he can focus).
As of today, I look right, because Cousins looks like a burgeoning AS and Favors is a bench guy on a bad Utah team (though behind a very good player).
Anyhow, like I said, it's impossible to fully evaluate. Some guys a raw and toolsy and work and develop their games and some guys just keep relying on their athleticism and never get anywhere (like Gerald Green).
I argued with a good buddy about this, because I thought Cousins was the best player in that draft class (ahead of Wall), thought he obviously wouldn't go ahead of Wall for a variety of reasons. My main reasoning is that yeah, Favors has all that elite athleticism, leaping ability, etc., but Cousins is such a skilled offensive player, I think he'll end up being better (if he can focus).
As of today, I look right, because Cousins looks like a burgeoning AS and Favors is a bench guy on a bad Utah team (though behind a very good player).
Anyhow, like I said, it's impossible to fully evaluate. Some guys a raw and toolsy and work and develop their games and some guys just keep relying on their athleticism and never get anywhere (like Gerald Green).
Posted on 2/7/12 at 3:12 pm to mhasen1
quote:
Drummond and Barnes have superstar potential. Passing on one for another is fine. Passing on both for anyone else with the possible exception of Davis is crazy.
Drummond scares the hell out of me but I agree we need to take the BPA with the 1st pick.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 4:33 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I argued with a good buddy about this, because I thought Cousins was the best player in that draft class (ahead of Wall), thought he obviously wouldn't go ahead of Wall for a variety of reasons. My main reasoning is that yeah, Favors has all that elite athleticism, leaping ability, etc., but Cousins is such a skilled offensive player, I think he'll end up being better (if he can focus).
As of today, I look right, because Cousins looks like a burgeoning AS and Favors is a bench guy on a bad Utah team (though behind a very good player).
The jury is still out here, Cousins had to get his coach fired to start playing well this year and he is still only shooting 46% and turns the ball over 3 times a game.
Utah is 5th in the west and has the 2nd best PF/C combo in the entire league, Favors numbers are pretty solid for the minutes he plays. He's also almost a full year younger than Cousins. Besides, this isn't really an athleticism vs. skill case, it's an athleticism vs. maniac case. If GM's had any sort of confidence that Cousins would live up to his potential then he would've gone first.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 5:50 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Favors has all that elite athleticism, leaping ability, etc., but Cousins is such a skilled offensive player,
I totally agreed at the time that Cousins was the best player in the draft, and I totally agree now.
But, I disagree with the reason. Cousins has elite size, which to me, is the same thing as elite athleticism. Agile, 6'11", 275 pounders with 7 1/2 ft wingspans are incredibly rare even in a league full of large athletes.
And even though Drummond sometimes looks like a newborn fawn, he has elite size and athleticism. Centers with that combination are much more likely to become the next Shaq or Dwight than to become the next Eddy Curry. Ignoring injury, enormous big men with agility are the least likely position to bust, even though they often enter with the least skill.
This post was edited on 2/7/12 at 5:51 pm
Posted on 2/7/12 at 6:00 pm to mhasen1
quote:
But, I disagree with the reason. Cousins has elite size, which to me, is the same thing as elite athleticism. Agile, 6'11", 275 pounders with 7 1/2 ft wingspans are incredibly rare even in a league full of large athletes.
Surely a 7'2'' 267 lb C with 7'6'' wingspan would appeal to you then? Or 6'11'' 269 lb C with 7'8'' wingspan?
Well they turned out to be Hasheem Thabeet and Michael Olowokandi. Chasing size has gotten many a GM and coach fired.
This post was edited on 2/7/12 at 6:01 pm
Posted on 2/7/12 at 6:34 pm to saintsfan22
For every Olowakandi and Thabeet, there are alot more Glenn Robinsons, Marcus Fizers, Drew Goodens, Emeka Okafors, and Shelden Williams.
BTW, Olowokandi's career numbers as a bust are nearly identical to Okafor's current season numbers, who as you said is fairly compensated.
I'd rather take my chance with Okafor downside as opposed to Okafor upside.
BTW, Olowokandi's career numbers as a bust are nearly identical to Okafor's current season numbers, who as you said is fairly compensated.
I'd rather take my chance with Okafor downside as opposed to Okafor upside.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 7:49 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I'm not fluent enough with all the prospects to know which ones are which, but it wouldn't shock me if a guy like Jared Sullinger ended up being better than T-Rob, Drummond, etc., because he has actual skills, though he may lack their overall athleticism.
Robinson is quite skilled. Good passer, good handles for a 4, promising good form on his shot around the FT line, and excellent rebounder.
Posted on 2/7/12 at 8:23 pm to mhasen1
In my dream world, they'd gut the team and pick up an additional lottery pick (trading Gordon would guarantee that). They would have 3 top 14 picks and about 30 million in cap space (more if they find a dumb GM to take Okafor). Then my targets would be MKG, Barnes and Rivers in whatever order they can grab them. In free agency they could throw the bank at the high profile Center (Lopez, Hibbert, Asik) or take a runner on a promising one (Thompson or McGee). They'd still have a ton of money to fill out the roster, maybe grab a couple of guys with local appeal (Augustin and Randolph). The Hornets would be the young, deep, deep team that would be fast, talented and hungry (also fun to watch). That's my dream..
Augustin/Rivers
MKG/Henry/Vasquez (horribly miscast as a PG)
Barnes/Aminu
Randolph/Ayon/Smith
Lopez/Lopez (I'd grab them both for fun)
Augustin/Rivers
MKG/Henry/Vasquez (horribly miscast as a PG)
Barnes/Aminu
Randolph/Ayon/Smith
Lopez/Lopez (I'd grab them both for fun)
Posted on 2/8/12 at 1:17 pm to mhasen1
quote:
But, I disagree with the reason. Cousins has elite size, which to me, is the same thing as elite athleticism. Agile, 6'11", 275 pounders with 7 1/2 ft wingspans are incredibly rare even in a league full of large athletes.
His size is good, but there were questions about his weight and his ability to be an "above the rim" player. Not to mention his attitude/effort.
But I think he's working through that (though he'll likely always be a bit of a headcase).
Posted on 2/8/12 at 1:18 pm to kadillak
quote:
Robinson is quite skilled. Good passer, good handles for a 4, promising good form on his shot around the FT line, and excellent rebounder.
Like I said, I don't know the guys well enough, but the reports on him that I read all said he was a guy with extreme athleticism and superb effort and that's what he used to get by, because all of his tools were really raw.
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