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re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power S1, Episode 4 Thread | Amazon | Available Now
Posted on 9/18/22 at 7:24 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 9/18/22 at 7:24 pm to OMLandshark
He had his publisher send a cease and desist letter to Dennis L. McKiernan, after McKiernan wrote to him stating he intended to write a sequel to LOTR.
0
Posted on 9/18/22 at 7:25 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
He’s talking about Christopher, who understood his father’s vision.
There’s no doubt Christopher was for the most part an excellent caretaker, and obviously far better at telling stories in this world than these jokers at Amazon, whose show is mixed at best so far.
But that clearly referred to more than just Christopher’s work, as it referenced all different sorts of art that would fit in the world of middle earth.
Posted on 9/18/22 at 7:29 pm to sqerty
quote:Istari
There were five ishtari (forgot the spelling) right? Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast the Brown. The other two went east, but were they ever named?
They were named in some of his letters, Alatar and Pallando. In some versions, they came in the Third Age with the other 3, but in others, these two came earlier (Second Age).
It looks as though they are following that line, and the Stranger is one of those two.
People who bitch about "not following canon", need to understand- JRR did not finish any of this to the point where he published it himself. His son Christopher edited a lot of things, pieced together what he thought was the most up-to-date (or maybe, most complete) versions, and published them himself.
As far as I know, there is NO set-in-stone statement that Galadriel never went to Numenor, there simply is no account of her doing so. She's given different places to live in, but those are hundreds, thousands of years apart, and this trip won't last a month.
Same thing with her commanding an army in the service of Gil Galad, or swing a sword in combat. Nothing states she either did, or did not.
Elrond- we have him one-off saying "I was there, beside Isildur as he cut the Ring off Sauron's hand with the shard of Narsil, and was with him as he went to Mount Doom". So that's canon. We never deep-dive into Galadriel, or hear anything of her feats. But does that mean she has none, or simply that she never felt the need to tell Frodo of them, as she could speak of being a Ring-bearer and provide more useful counsel that way? (Elrond could have too, as could Gandalf. But neither did).
They're focusing on Galadriel and Elrond thus far, for a couple simple-to-see reasons.
1) they are the familiar characters, to the non-readers.
2) the Elves are going to be the primary tale, in that THEY made the Rings of Power. The Numenoreans didn't, and the Dwarves didn't.
3)_the Estate... if you do read some of Tolkien's works, you see that the Elves are his #1 passion. Even when he had tales with Men, they were overlaid onto the Elvish background. If you're going to do a Tolkien tale, you are going to have to do Elves.
Posted on 9/18/22 at 9:04 pm to Scoob
quote:
You can yell that they should already be wise, but a tv show, movie or novel would better work if the leads have a character growth arc. Galadriel and Elrond are the leads.
To many sites are have posted that already disagree with you. And no I am not talking about Lore loyal sites or writers.
You seem hell bent on defending her character but everywhere I have seen she is the least likable of the show.
This post was edited on 9/18/22 at 9:14 pm
Posted on 9/18/22 at 9:09 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
He is saying that the overlap is in the fan base. I am not sure I agree. I am a huge Tolkien fan.
Then I think you underestimate SW fans. After the OT decades were spent continuing the story through comic, novels, and other writings. So much depth to create a great universe that Lucas left alone. I am not a hard core lore person in regards to SW but the movies that have come out maybe consist 10% of the the material out there. Just saying
Posted on 9/18/22 at 9:11 pm to Scoob
quote:
Scoob
Listen I get it, you like the show and are gonna defend it. Im jealous, wish I did too. Im not gonna try and convince you or anyone else not to like it. I ended my Prime so I wont be watching anymore or commenting on further episodes.
Posted on 9/18/22 at 9:19 pm to Socrates Johnson
quote:
quote:Worked just fine in the greatest literary fantasy series of all time and the greatest fantasy movie trilogy of all time...but hey what does Tolkien and Peter Jackson know The ones where she is a peripheral character?
Again, Amazon chose Galadriel as the main character. They were not forced to do so. Lore Galadriel who was feminine, beautiful,
and wise. Amazon thinks that is boring so they felt that they had to change her. Nobody forced them to do that.
This post was edited on 9/18/22 at 9:44 pm
Posted on 9/18/22 at 9:47 pm to Guntersville
quote:
Lore Galadriel who was feminine, beautiful,
and wise, just was deemed not interesting enough by Amazon so they felt that they had to change her.
I just don't understand why she has to be all of those things straight out of the womb (or elven equivalent). Again, I have serious concerns with how exactly they're delivering the characterization, but they're clearly setting up a character arc, which is a literary device within which a character grows and changes as she deals with the conflicts she's thrust into. Galadriel won't be like this the entire show. If it's done at all competently (certainly not a given) she'll grow closer to the wise, feminine elf you fetishize.
Posted on 9/18/22 at 10:18 pm to Jay Are
quote:
If it's done at all competently (certainly not a given) she'll grow closer to the wise, feminine elf you fetishize.
Oh so you are a troll, noted. Interesting that you think feminine is a fetish
This post was edited on 9/18/22 at 10:19 pm
Posted on 9/18/22 at 10:36 pm to Guntersville
quote:
They were named in some of his letters, Alatar and Pallando.
Thanks. Pallando sounds familiar. When I read Fire and Blood recently (last yearish) it reminded me (slightly) of the appendices (LOTR). The Silmarillion I don't remember. Read most of it many years ago, never read Christopher's stuff. I do concur that Tolkien had the emphasis on Elven lore or their influence. Could also be that with their old age they come off as a little "cocky". This show seems to want to "fill in the blanks" rather than completely fabricate new stories from what isn't or is explicitly written.
Posted on 9/18/22 at 11:11 pm to Guntersville
1. Is Galadriel now feminine in the show? It’s not like she’s super butch. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but she’s not exactly hideous.
2. During this time Tolkien often describes her as proud. He also talks about how she wants to establish her own kingdom and rule in middle earth. By the time the LOTR comes around she’s turning down the Ring of power. To say she has to be have always been wise and exactly like what she was in the LOTR trilogy and movies ignores the fact that she wasn’t always like that.
2. During this time Tolkien often describes her as proud. He also talks about how she wants to establish her own kingdom and rule in middle earth. By the time the LOTR comes around she’s turning down the Ring of power. To say she has to be have always been wise and exactly like what she was in the LOTR trilogy and movies ignores the fact that she wasn’t always like that.
Posted on 9/19/22 at 12:47 am to SammyTiger
quote:
Is Galadriel now feminine in the show?
In appearance, yes. The actress is also pretty good looking. Its her actions and demeanor that is not at all feminine. Again, my brain just doesnt buy what this show is selling...a beautiful millennia old is going to come in guns a blazin pullin knives on people and demanding to see the highest authority *cough manager...no
No someone like that would be charming. Shed be calm, collected. Her words would be calculated. At the very least, shed be thankful to people who rescued her from certain death at sea...
quote:
To say she has to be have always been wise and exactly like what she was in the LOTR trilogy and movies ignores the fact that she wasn’t always like that.
Not once in Hobbit, or LOTR was any elf described as brash, reckless, and hotheaded. She is one of the oldest elves at this point and acts like that???
My brain doesnt buy it
This post was edited on 9/19/22 at 12:48 am
Posted on 9/19/22 at 5:58 am to Guntersville
quote:They're not described that way in The Hobbit or LOTR, because little is told of Elves in those books.
Not once in Hobbit, or LOTR was any elf described as brash, reckless, and hotheaded.
It's a different story in The Silmarillion. Feanor and his sons absolutely fit that. So, too, were plenty on the other side of the Noldor. Hell, speaking of the Noldor, that's exactly why they are in Middle Earth, instead of Valinor; and why most are dead by this point in history.
Posted on 9/19/22 at 7:00 am to SammyTiger
quote:
To say she has to be have always been wise and exactly like what she was in the LOTR trilogy and movies ignores the fact that she wasn’t always like that.
This was during the time of the show
quote:
Because of her wisdom and power, she had very important roles throughout the history of Middle-earth, especially during her time in Eregion and during the War of the Ring.
She was considered wise throughout.
quote:
He also talks about how she wants to establish her own kingdom and rule in middle earth.
This is true but to respond in regards to her lifting a sword in fight.
quote:
Galadriel was an eager participant and leader in the rebellion of the Ñoldor and their flight from Valinor due to her desire to one day rule over lands in Middle-earth herself.
quote:
she and her people did not take part in the Kinslaying at Alqualondë. They followed Fingolfin instead and crossed the Helcaraxë in the far north.
quote:
She had no role in the major wars of the First Age, believing that defeating Morgoth was beyond the power of the Eldar
Posted on 9/19/22 at 7:09 am to Scoob
quote:
Feanor and his sons absolutely fit that.
He had issues because he knew Morgoth was evil. He saw him for what he was before anyone else did.
There rebellion was his people coming to Middle Earth to seek out Morgoth
quote:
It's a different story in The Silmarillion
Please provide reference to their reckless and brash deeds
Posted on 9/19/22 at 8:16 am to TideWarrior
quote:
Please provide reference to their reckless and brash deeds
The oath, one of the most reckless and brash things ever done. It was blasphemous. It is up there with Morgoth’s betrayal. It led to other brash and reckless deeds such as multiple kinslayings, the burning of the most magnificent fleet of elven ships.
Posted on 9/19/22 at 8:32 am to Scoob
quote:
It's a different story in The Silmarillion. Feanor and his sons absolutely fit that. So, too, were plenty on the other side of the Noldor. Hell, speaking of the Noldor, that's exactly why they are in Middle Earth, instead of Valinor; and why most are dead by this point in history.
True, but Galadriel didnt go to follow Feonor. She was in the crew that reluctantly went and the ones Feonor tried to leave behind when they took the ships.
Posted on 9/19/22 at 8:51 am to MRF
quote:
The oath, one of the most reckless and brash things ever done. It was blasphemous. It is up there with Morgoth’s betrayal. It led to other brash and reckless deeds such as multiple kinslayings, the burning of the most magnificent fleet of elven ships.
Maybe because the way of the other Elves was wrong. They did not care that Morgoth went to Middle Earth and were arrogant and basically said he is now someone's else problem.
That would be like who cares what Hitler is doing in Europe because we live here in the US and does not affect us.
So I guess it depends on which perspective you take it from because Feanor I believe did the right thing.
Posted on 9/19/22 at 9:02 am to TideWarrior
You’re welcome to believe that.
Tolkien compared the oath to the fall of man
“They pervert the greater part of their kindred, who rebel against the gods, and depart from paradise, and go to make hopeless war upon the Enemy. The first fruit of their fall is war in Paradise, the slaying of Elves by Elves, and thus and their evil path dogs all their later heroism, generating treacheries and undoing all victories.”
“The oath of the sons of Feanor becomes operative, and lust for the Silmaril brings all kingdoms of the Elves to ruin.”
Tolkien compared the oath to the fall of man
“They pervert the greater part of their kindred, who rebel against the gods, and depart from paradise, and go to make hopeless war upon the Enemy. The first fruit of their fall is war in Paradise, the slaying of Elves by Elves, and thus and their evil path dogs all their later heroism, generating treacheries and undoing all victories.”
“The oath of the sons of Feanor becomes operative, and lust for the Silmaril brings all kingdoms of the Elves to ruin.”
Posted on 9/19/22 at 9:12 am to MRF
quote:
You’re welcome to believe that.
Tolkien compared the oath to the fall of man
“They pervert the greater part of their kindred, who rebel against the gods, and depart from paradise, and go to make hopeless war upon the Enemy. The first fruit of their fall is war in Paradise, the slaying of Elves by Elves, and thus and their evil path dogs all their later heroism, generating treacheries and undoing all victories.”
“The oath of the sons of Feanor becomes operative, and lust for the Silmaril brings all kingdoms of the Elves to ruin.”
For me I am glad they did that or else we would not have Middle Earth as it is, we would not have the 3 ages, and the LOTR and Hobbit would never have happened.
And yes from my perspective I am glad they chose to fight and destroy evil and ignore it.
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