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re: The Hobbits
Posted on 2/1/21 at 8:49 am to AURaptor
Posted on 2/1/21 at 8:49 am to AURaptor
quote:
that stuff about Gandalf and the Necromancer... rubbish
Not needed but not what ruined the movies. The shite with Dwarf/Elf love, comedy villans from Lake Town, ridiculous chase scenes in the Goblin Caves and the horrific barrel scene, fricking disgrace of Dain riding a damn pig to battle, what the hell were those ram things etc...
1
Posted on 2/1/21 at 9:01 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Peter Jackson wasn’t the one who wanted to make it a trilogy. He wanted 2 movies, but the studio whored out. The scenes Jackson needed to get right he pulled off to perfection. The Unexpected Party, the trolls, Riddles in the Dark, Mirkwood Spiders, Bilbo meeting Smaug, Smaug’s death, and Thorin’s death were done pretty perfectly. He halfassed the scenes that didn’t matter because he only had a year to write and put into production the Hobbit trilogy, while Jackson had 3 years of preproduction to get the Lord of the Rings right.
All of this. I haven't seen it but I've heard the fan-made condensed version of the trilogy is great.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 9:17 am to AURaptor
quote:
Smaller sets and real stunt work...less applicable for large battle scenes.
Will never forget being in Wellington New Zealand on a tour and the guide saying “that’s where helms deep AND Minis Tirith were filmed. He was pointing to a relatively small rock quarry on the side of the highway
Posted on 2/1/21 at 9:46 am to TygerTyger
quote:
The Hobbit movies should be deleted from public knowledge and redone as a two part story that sticks to the fricking book.
I desperately want these redone correctly.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 10:25 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
I desperately want these redone correctly.
Honestly they should do what they did to Blade Runner and do a Final Cut of it. Remove Tauriel, basically anything to do with the Necromancer, cut the Battle of Five Armies well by half, Azog is only in the end, and just have Smaug come out of Erebor with no gold coating, and you’ve got a good film.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 10:53 am to OMLandshark
quote:This is correct. I think there were a lot of firings and people quitting over it as well. Wasn't Jackson off of the project completely for a while?
Peter Jackson wasn’t the one who wanted to make it a trilogy. He wanted 2 movies, but the studio whored out. The scenes Jackson needed to get right he pulled off to perfection. The Unexpected Party, the trolls, Riddles in the Dark, Mirkwood Spiders, Bilbo meeting Smaug, Smaug’s death, and Thorin’s death were done pretty perfectly. He halfassed the scenes that didn’t matter because he only had a year to write and put into production the Hobbit trilogy, while Jackson had 3 years of preproduction to get the Lord of the Rings right.
The studios were in 100 whore mode at the time, stretching out book series as much as they could. Twilight, Harry Potter, Hunger Games all had their final chapters split into two plodding movies. The Hobbit is a 260 page book and they stretched it out to three 2 1/2 hour movies.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 10:55 am to OMLandshark
You'd also have to cut the dumbass chase in the goblin caves and the river barrels. And the cleaning up the dishes, and the Smaug chase scene.
Basically every time CGI is used to show things happen that defy or ignore physics.
Use CGI to show things that can't easily be done with practical effects, BUT are still practical in their behavior. Jackson did that in Fellowship.
Basically every time CGI is used to show things happen that defy or ignore physics.
Use CGI to show things that can't easily be done with practical effects, BUT are still practical in their behavior. Jackson did that in Fellowship.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 10:57 am to blueboy
quote:
This is correct. I think there were a lot of firings and people quitting over it as well. Wasn't Jackson off of the project completely for a while?
He actually had a mini-breakdown shooting the final battle since he knew it wasn’t close to as good as Helm’s Deep or Pelenor Field, and time be fair to him the source material wasn’t as good as what he had in LotR.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 11:01 am to TygerTyger
quote:
You'd also have to cut the dumbass chase in the goblin caves and the river barrels.
River barrels, yes. Cut the goblin chase in half.
quote:
And the cleaning up the dishes
Nah, that scene is great.
quote:
and the Smaug chase scene.
I address that. As soon as Bilbo leaves with the Arkenstone, Smaug would just go after Laketown.
quote:
Basically every time CGI is used to show things happen that defy or ignore physics.
Oh yeah, save for a small cameo when Legolas (Legolas was in all likelihood present for some of the events of the Hobbit) captures the dwarves in Mirkwood, basically all the Elven over the top BS is removed.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 3:01 pm to OMLandshark
quote:The source material was every bit as good. It just wasn't enough to fill three 2 1/2 hour movies.
the source material wasn’t as good as what he had in LotR.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 3:16 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
He literally didn’t have the time to not make it mostly CGI. They forged tens of thousands of pieces of armor for Lord of the Rings because he had 3 years of preproduction. He didn’t have that time with the Hobbit.
I'm writing about the LOTR series.
The Fellowship is the best movie because it has the least amount of CGI.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 3:25 pm to emanresu
quote:
It was not his decision to make it 3 movies. He took over after the original director quit. And then the movies were way underfunded and behind schedule and without a cohesive written ending. He had to shoot before there was even a fully finished script. He was there to salvage and people wrongly think it was his idea and fault.
All of this.
He signed on to produce, then after multiple studio frick-ups he was roped into writing and directing a movie that was already well into production and was getting made Hell or high water. I think he felt he owed it to the producers, studio, cast, and fans to insure it was as well made as possible but ultimately knew it would be a failure.
There's a few backstage clips of him during filming and the dude looked like he was having a complete mental breakdown.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 4:00 pm to Tackle74
quote:
Not needed but not what ruined the movies. The shite with Dwarf/Elf love, comedy villans from Lake Town, ridiculous chase scenes in the Goblin Caves and the horrific barrel scene, fricking disgrace of Dain riding a damn pig to battle, what the hell were those ram things etc...
See, this is the problem with making a short story into a 3 movie saga. They needed to invent characters, extrapolate events which weren't in the book, and create relationships which had zero to do with the story. Absolutely awful.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 4:02 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Remove Tauriel
Agreed. Total waste of time.
quote:
anything to do with the Necromancer
I actually enjoyed that background information and tying the story directly to the trilogy.
quote:
Battle of Five Armies well by half
and eliminate the cartoonish barrel chase scene all together.
quote:
Azog is only in the end
Eliminated the Azog storyline all together. It was pointless and added no value.
quote:
Smaug come out of Erebor with no gold coating
The Bilbo and Smaug scenes were the best of the series. The whole Smaug and dwarf chase scene in the caverns could be eliminated.
Give me orcs in real costume and not CGI and we got something! Not sure why they decided to depart so much from the original story and the original success they had with the trilogy. They had the winning formula.......
Posted on 2/1/21 at 4:28 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
I actually enjoyed that background information and tying the story directly to the trilogy.
The point of Gandalf going away and doing Wizard things was to focus ON to the dwarves, Bilbo and their adventure. The identity of the Necromancer was supposed to be a secret, which only heightened the drama... Is it 'HIM' or not, and if not, who ?
Flat out saying - Oh yeah, it's Sauron, totally. takes away the suspense. It's an awful story choice.
And btw, Sauron wasn't a thing yet, when The Hobbit was written. His development, and the backstory to the Ring, hadn't been written yet by Tolkien.
This post was edited on 2/1/21 at 5:50 pm
Posted on 2/1/21 at 4:30 pm to VermilionTiger
quote:
Smaug scenes
Agree overall, but still, I didn’t think that Fing dragon was ever going to shut the F up.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 5:07 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
Eliminated the Azog storyline all together. It was pointless and added no value.
Someone’s got to kill Thorin. Just bring up Azog in the beginning and then he shows up in the end and that’s it.
quote:
Give me orcs in real costume and not CGI and we got something! Not sure why they decided to depart so much from the original story and the original success they had with the trilogy. They had the winning formula.......
Jackson wasn’t given enough time to make all the orc and goblin makeup as he did last time. That being said, Azog should have been pure makeup.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 5:08 pm to Havoc
quote:
Agree overall, but still, I didn’t think that Fing dragon was ever going to shut the F up.
I mean.... that’s Smaug’s character. He loves to talk, boast, brag, taunt, riddles, and gold. Here was an epic rant of his in the book.
quote:
Revenge! Revenge! The King under the Mountain is dead and where are his kin that dare seek revenge? Girion Lord of Dale is dead, and I have eaten his people like a wolf among sheep, and where are his sons' sons that dare approach me? I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong, strong, Thief in the Shadows! My armor is like tenfold shields. My teeth are like swords. My claws, spears. The shock of my tail, a thunderbolt. My wings, a hurricane. And my breath, death!
This post was edited on 2/1/21 at 5:15 pm
Posted on 2/1/21 at 6:44 pm to OMLandshark
Yep
Posted on 2/1/21 at 8:05 pm to blueboy
quote:
The source material was every bit as good. It just wasn't enough to fill three 2 1/2 hour movies.
The source material is fantastic, but battle wise it was not as good as LotR. In the Battle of the Five Armies you at best only care about the Dwarves and Men (Bard specifically) in the battle. Lord of the Rings just set the stage for the battles better than the Hobbit did, especially since Thorin was merely being a selfish a-hole and you as the reader think Bard should get a large portion of the treasure for his deed. The stakes are a hell of a lot higher in LotR than the Hobbit.
Thorin does get redemption in the end, but the Battle of the Five Armies wasn’t really about the battle in the same way Helm’s Deep and Pelenor Fields were. Jackson had better battle material to work with in LotR, and the Battle of the Five Armies on film should have been maybe 20 minutes, while Helm’s Deep and Pelenor much more justify their length.
This post was edited on 2/1/21 at 8:06 pm
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