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re: Star Trek: TOS Watchers - Season 1 Wrapup *Page 25*

Posted on 7/16/13 at 9:58 am to
Posted by Master of Sinanju
Member since Feb 2012
11928 posts
Posted on 7/16/13 at 9:58 am to
This episode is an example of how versatile the Enterprise is. We've seen it on exploration missions, here it is enforcing space law, and we'll soon see it on diplomatic, military, and espionage missions. This led to a great diversity in types of stories that were written.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94824 posts
Posted on 7/17/13 at 7:16 am to
Bump for Wednesday

Last day for Mudd's Women (next up The Enemy Within)

Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60833 posts
Posted on 7/17/13 at 9:06 am to
quote:

This is another early episode written in the Wagon Train guest star format, with Kirk peripheral to most of the action


I was noticing that. I had always heard the "wagon Train to the stars" but always just assumed it was a reference to being a "western" in space since I was not familar wit the show Wagon Train. Thanks for explaining that earlier

quote:

The exterior shots of the enterprise look better than they used to. I take it those are CGI?


The shots of the mining planet/encampment were obvious models. Like Ace was saying, its stuff like that that modern audiences make fun of that sadly detracts from the really good stories and characters.
This post was edited on 7/17/13 at 9:11 am
Posted by Master of Sinanju
Member since Feb 2012
11928 posts
Posted on 7/17/13 at 9:18 am to
Something else seemed a little out of place to me. At the end, when Childress invites Eve to stay, she tells Kirk "You already have someone called the Enterprise.". Other than the scene in which she refuses to try to seduce him, they don't spend much time together. It makes me wonder if there was a closer relationship between the two in a previous draft.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94824 posts
Posted on 7/17/13 at 6:57 pm to
quote:

At the end, when Childress invites Eve to stay, she tells Kirk "You already have someone called the Enterprise."


The relationship may have not gone very far, yet, but there was a strong personal attraction. Kirk essentially confesses this to McCoy, and in other ways, and Mudd picked up Eve's obvious attraction to Kirk.

She was just acknowledging that it couldn't work and make it okay to stay with the rich, yet homely Childress (which lots of pretty gals do.)

Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94824 posts
Posted on 7/18/13 at 7:03 am to
*THE ENEMY WITHIN*

A very intense, Kirk-focused episode, The Enemy Within addresses, head on and literally, the concept of good and evil within each soul.

Very suggestive sexual violence marked TOS as a show on the bleeding edge of television. The struggles that "good" Kirk had, particularly his indecision and over-analysis are contrasted by the brutal, but effective "evil" Kirk.

This show also demonstrates why Shatner gets paid the big bucks - his over-the-top, live theater style of acting is perfect for this episode. I wouldn't have it any other way.
This post was edited on 7/18/13 at 7:23 am
Posted by TigerGman
Center of the Universe
Member since Sep 2006
13544 posts
Posted on 7/18/13 at 12:05 pm to
quote:

The struggles that "good" Kirk had, particularly his indecision and over-analysis are contrasted by the brutal, but effective "evil" Kirk.



I presume this is the episode where "evil" Kirk has the goatee?
Posted by TigerMyth36
River Ridge
Member since Nov 2005
41072 posts
Posted on 7/18/13 at 12:11 pm to
C'mon rookie. You need to start posting a PIC from the episode in the first link for the new episode.

I haven't done a rewatch of TOS I think ever. Watched reruns a million times growing up.

I've been kicking around the idea of a rewatch forever so I think I might join the party.

I'm in the midst of a SGUathon with a thread but I might kill that one. The show is destroying my soul.

Might watch the ones I missed in this thread and catch up tomorrow.

Might have to bring the hammer down or compare to the recent movies you hate so much.
Posted by Fletch F Fletch
The Seat of Caddo Parish
Member since Jan 2009
6474 posts
Posted on 7/18/13 at 12:26 pm to
my notes from watching The Enemy Within:

•Dog suit
•Lighting was a big part of this episode and I thought they used it well to highlight the moods and characters.
•His first captains log explains to the audience what’s happening, but is from a future Kirk, not in the present. I’d say that’s a miscue on the writer’s part
•Of course it’s overacting on Shatner's part, that’s why we love him, but the other Kirk is just this side of a pure animal, so the acting choices aren’t out of line, to me
•The debut of the green captain’s wrap
•Hi, I’m Janice Rand. I wake up 4 hours early every day so I can weave my hair together…
•The landing party will freeze…Ok, so send a shuttle to pick them up…
•Spock should have kept that unicorn dog.
•No, I’m Captain Kirk, no I’m Captain Kirk (repeat a la Spartacus)
•I noticed a couple of times in this episode, Spock has a cadence very similar to the one used by Quinto in the new movies.
•And there is Spock doing some very human teasing of Rand for getting all hot in the bothered over Kirk.

This episode does a good job at examining the dichotomy of humanity. McCoy explains it outright, and since there are more than a few people watching who aren’t starship captains, the audience gets the message that sometimes people feel angry and mad and happy and sad and that it is all of these emotions and feelings that make us who we are.
This post was edited on 7/18/13 at 12:27 pm
Posted by Master of Sinanju
Member since Feb 2012
11928 posts
Posted on 7/18/13 at 1:19 pm to
This episode was written by Richard Matheson, who recently passed away. He also wrote I Am Legend, Duel, The Incredible Shrinking Man, and a ton of other stuff.

We also see the first Vulcan nerve pinch and hear the first "He's dead, Jim."

Spock's teasing of Rand is seen by many to be awfully sexist by today's standards. Here is what Grace Lee Whitney had to say about it:

quote:

I can't imagine any more cruel and insensitive comment a man (or Vulcan) could make to a woman who has just been through a sexual assault! But then, some men really do think that women want to be raped. So the writer of the script (ostensibly Richard Matheson - although the line could have been added by Gene Roddenberry or an assistant scribe) gives us a leering Mr. Spock who suggests that Yeoman Rand enjoyed being raped and found the evil Kirk attractive!


Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94824 posts
Posted on 7/18/13 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

Dog suit


Scotty handling the dog is a rare example where the finger Jimmy lost (at Normandy, no less, ) is briefly visible, although I could not find a screenshot illustrating this.



Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94824 posts
Posted on 7/18/13 at 6:31 pm to
Bump for evening crew -

Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60833 posts
Posted on 7/19/13 at 8:49 am to
Pretty good episode, though the meaning was kind of obvious. I'm guessing the attemped rape was pretty risque for the time, shows they were on the cutting edge with this show. Some of Shatner's best over acting, ie being Shanter. How freaking long is Yoeman Rand's hair to be bundled up like that?
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
57019 posts
Posted on 7/19/13 at 11:56 am to
It shows Spock as a Vulcan doesn't get emotions or understand them.
Posted by Kafka
I am the moral conscience of TD
Member since Jul 2007
154451 posts
Posted on 7/19/13 at 10:05 pm to
The first indisputably classic episode, written by the late great Richard Matheson (and directed, insignificantly enough, by the father of Sean Penn). This is probably Shatner's finest hour on the show -- in the later, similarly-themed episode "Turnabout Intruder", he would be rather embarrassing.

Matheson's script stresses an aspect of the Jeckyll-Hyde story that had been downplayed/ignored by previous versions, at least the ones I've seen -- that man's evil side is in fact a necessary component of his nature.

According to Nimoy, the original script had Spock punch out the evil Kirk, which he found out of character. So Nimoy came up with the "Vulcan nerve pinch", which is not explained by an dialogue.

All this PC nonsense expressing outrage that Rand "found the evil Kirk attractive". Yeah chicks never go for bad boys
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94824 posts
Posted on 7/19/13 at 10:21 pm to
quote:

This is probably Shatner's finest hour on the show


I tend to agree.

quote:

According to Nimoy, the original script had Spock punch out the evil Kirk, which he found out of character. So Nimoy came up with the "Vulcan nerve pinch", which is not explained by an dialogue.



I think this is confirmed in the various biographies that have been written. Often times a writing team goes to the actor, who really is the subject matter expert on the character. The nerve pinch added another dimension to Spock (and mitigated the obvious lack of martial prowess by Leonard Nimoy ).

Posted by Kafka
I am the moral conscience of TD
Member since Jul 2007
154451 posts
Posted on 7/19/13 at 10:44 pm to
The one thing I've always noticed about Star Trek:

On Wagon Train the staff was fairly small: the wagonmaster, a scout, a cook, and a general ramrod to oversee the train. Naturally the scout had to leave the train, so it made sense for him to get involved in various adventures. Occasionaly the wagonmaster -- played by the star of the show, remember -- would go out as well, but usually he would stay with the train and handle problems there.

But Star Trek didn't follow this format. Whenever there was any kind of crisis on some planet, Kirk would beam down and jump right right into the situation himself.

Of course this came from Shatner insisting on being the focus of every episode, but it's always seemed silly to me. I can understand Horatio Hornblower leaving the ship when he was a midshipman, but as a captain? No he'd stay on board and send some redshirt to the island to get killed by cannibals.

Something else I just realized about Star Trek. The whole point of Wagon Train was to emphasize guest stars, so we'd get episodes where passengers have various problems to deal with, with the wagonmaster popping up every so often to hear about their predicament.

Star Trek almost never emphasized its "passengers" (the crewmen). Instead Kirk or perhaps Spock would serve as the character foundation of the episode, with the guest being some outsider: alien (evil or benign) or Starfleet bureaucrat.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94824 posts
Posted on 7/20/13 at 8:10 am to
quote:

Of course this came from Shatner insisting on being the focus of every episode, but it's always seemed silly to me. I can understand Horatio Hornblower leaving the ship when he was a midshipman, but as a captain? No he'd stay on board and send some redshirt to the island to get killed by cannibals.


This did cause resentment from the secondary cast - just using our current episode - Sulu didn't even lead the away team, but was left in charge when Kirk beamed back up. There were numerous opportunities for Spock or Sulu to lead away teams, but Kirk was a much more "hands on" captain.

(To leap ahead, TNG did a better job of keeping that division, where Riker did more of the heavy lifting on away missions, and Picard stayed on the bridge where he belonged - unless the Captain's presence was required - one of the few areas where TNG exceeded its predecessor.)

And I remain convinced the whole "Wagon Train to the stars" concept was camouflage for Roddenberry ripping off Forbidden Planet.
Posted by Master of Sinanju
Member since Feb 2012
11928 posts
Posted on 7/20/13 at 9:22 am to
quote:

Of course this came from Shatner insisting on being the focus of every episode, but it's always seemed silly to me. I can understand Horatio Hornblower leaving the ship when he was a midshipman, but as a captain? No he'd stay on board and send some redshirt to the island to get killed by cannibals.


I never had a problem with this. It always made sense in my mind that a captain of the frontier-like starfleet we see in TOS would lead landing parties. A captain of this era was a larger than life character - explorer, military commander, and diplomat rolled into one. It added to the mystique of the position.

The division of command we see in TNG is actually something I didn't like, particularly early on when they really pushed the idea of Riker not letting Picard leave the ship. I will admit that this may be because I was more interested in seeing Picard than Riker on screen.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94824 posts
Posted on 7/20/13 at 5:28 pm to
quote:

It always made sense in my mind that a captain of the frontier-like starfleet we see in TOS would lead landing parties.


It didn't bother me as a kid. It doesn't bother me now - it worked for Kirk. However, the TNG system did make more sense.
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