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Rings of Power, Ep 5 is available
Posted on 9/23/22 at 12:26 am
Posted on 9/23/22 at 12:26 am
I checked during the postgame show, and it was out.
I watched it. There were parts that seemed good.
They have an interesting take on the fading of the Eldar; I guess that will be the motivation to make the Rings. I suppose, ultimately (with regards to the movies), the overall concept remains the same- once the Rings fail, they have to either sail to the West, or fade away (as Galadriel expresses in the films). The fix seems a bit too simplistic, but maybe there's some Sauron mischief at work here.
Meteor Man takes a change in this episode, I think the door is open for him to be evil again. He did something to the Wargs, and it caused his arm to appear to darken, like it was burned. Is he an amnesiac Balrog? If so, why is he so befuddled? That whole line is bizarre, not sure what to make of it.
It's hard to get a handle on this... on the one hand, they seem to be veering way off established lore, on the other they are invoking pretty deep bits at times. Galadriel rattles off her lineage, and it's dead-on correct, a couple episodes. Galadriel of the Noldor, of the golden house of Finarfin.... that's right and there doesn't seem a reason to change things, if you're going that deep.
Elrond recites a legend that is completely unheard-of before this show, of an Elvish knight battling a Balrog for possession of one of the lost Silmarils, and the purity and power of the battle seeps into the earth to create mithril.
That's a WTF, the Silmarils are accounted for. One is with Earendil, one is in the sea, one in the chasms of the earth.
And yet, he states the Knight has the virtue of Manwe upon him; another acknowledgement of the known, true lore. I don't think Manwe, Lord of the Valar, has been named prior to that moment, onscreen.
The writers seem to want to dance around the known stuff, to keep the more knowledgeable readers in the dark as much as the casual film-watchers. If that's what they doing, I don't think it was the best choice to make.
I watched it. There were parts that seemed good.
They have an interesting take on the fading of the Eldar; I guess that will be the motivation to make the Rings. I suppose, ultimately (with regards to the movies), the overall concept remains the same- once the Rings fail, they have to either sail to the West, or fade away (as Galadriel expresses in the films). The fix seems a bit too simplistic, but maybe there's some Sauron mischief at work here.
Meteor Man takes a change in this episode, I think the door is open for him to be evil again. He did something to the Wargs, and it caused his arm to appear to darken, like it was burned. Is he an amnesiac Balrog? If so, why is he so befuddled? That whole line is bizarre, not sure what to make of it.
It's hard to get a handle on this... on the one hand, they seem to be veering way off established lore, on the other they are invoking pretty deep bits at times. Galadriel rattles off her lineage, and it's dead-on correct, a couple episodes. Galadriel of the Noldor, of the golden house of Finarfin.... that's right and there doesn't seem a reason to change things, if you're going that deep.
Elrond recites a legend that is completely unheard-of before this show, of an Elvish knight battling a Balrog for possession of one of the lost Silmarils, and the purity and power of the battle seeps into the earth to create mithril.
That's a WTF, the Silmarils are accounted for. One is with Earendil, one is in the sea, one in the chasms of the earth.
And yet, he states the Knight has the virtue of Manwe upon him; another acknowledgement of the known, true lore. I don't think Manwe, Lord of the Valar, has been named prior to that moment, onscreen.
The writers seem to want to dance around the known stuff, to keep the more knowledgeable readers in the dark as much as the casual film-watchers. If that's what they doing, I don't think it was the best choice to make.
13
Posted on 9/23/22 at 12:41 am to Scoob
Elrond and Durin are the main thing carrying this show. Durin’s bit with the table was good.
It seemed to confirm that halbrand is just a man, which makes me continue to hope he becomes the witch king once he is established and gets a ring.
Speaking of not Sauron, Adar was not impressed at being mistaken for him. He continues to be intriguing on screen.
The show keeps trying to tell us that meteor man is evil, and that was clear tonight. But it is hard to make him fit anyone specific from lore. Doesn’t fit Sauron without major alterations to lore. With the tale of the balrog tonight that is a possibility I suppose. Evilminem is on his trail and seemed to expect him.
I don’t mind Galadriel having skill, but why do the Numenoreans have to be portrayed as hapless for the most part? And why is their force so meager? They are supposed to be the most powerful force in Middle Earth right now. Maybe there will be another fleet in later seasons that go and capture Sauron that will have more than a few ships and 500 soldiers.
ETA: the mithril explanation is just, strange. I mean I guess if you think about the end of the third age, it sorta fits with the diminishing of the rings and the elves. But there was a long time period where the two trees were already destroyed and the silmarils were locked in a deep fortress with Morgoth. The elves seemed just fine during that time, without any access to light from the trees. And the Silvan elves aren’t affected by these factors anyway.
It seemed to confirm that halbrand is just a man, which makes me continue to hope he becomes the witch king once he is established and gets a ring.
Speaking of not Sauron, Adar was not impressed at being mistaken for him. He continues to be intriguing on screen.
The show keeps trying to tell us that meteor man is evil, and that was clear tonight. But it is hard to make him fit anyone specific from lore. Doesn’t fit Sauron without major alterations to lore. With the tale of the balrog tonight that is a possibility I suppose. Evilminem is on his trail and seemed to expect him.
I don’t mind Galadriel having skill, but why do the Numenoreans have to be portrayed as hapless for the most part? And why is their force so meager? They are supposed to be the most powerful force in Middle Earth right now. Maybe there will be another fleet in later seasons that go and capture Sauron that will have more than a few ships and 500 soldiers.
ETA: the mithril explanation is just, strange. I mean I guess if you think about the end of the third age, it sorta fits with the diminishing of the rings and the elves. But there was a long time period where the two trees were already destroyed and the silmarils were locked in a deep fortress with Morgoth. The elves seemed just fine during that time, without any access to light from the trees. And the Silvan elves aren’t affected by these factors anyway.
This post was edited on 9/23/22 at 1:00 am
Posted on 9/23/22 at 12:52 am to MRF
Durin is the most compelling character imo. And this might not be a popular opinion, but I don't really have a problem with Galdriel and her bitchiness and brattiness. She's a babe.
It's time for some more big budget fight scenes, however. Too many long winded conversations and not enough action – like Game of Thrones. If I wasn't a Tolkien or LOTR fan, I probably would've given up on the show by now. I imagine that a lot of casual viewers already have.
QUESTION for those who are more knowledgeable. How powerful is Sauron at this point in his career? If he wanted to, could he do 10 times as much magic as Gandalph without getting tired and cause shock and awe, or is being a shape-shifter his most powerful power?
It's time for some more big budget fight scenes, however. Too many long winded conversations and not enough action – like Game of Thrones. If I wasn't a Tolkien or LOTR fan, I probably would've given up on the show by now. I imagine that a lot of casual viewers already have.
QUESTION for those who are more knowledgeable. How powerful is Sauron at this point in his career? If he wanted to, could he do 10 times as much magic as Gandalph without getting tired and cause shock and awe, or is being a shape-shifter his most powerful power?
This post was edited on 9/23/22 at 12:55 am
Posted on 9/23/22 at 1:07 am to Sgt Tuffnuts
A taste of Sauron earlier, in the first age:
He only grew in strength after Morgoth was defeated.
quote:
Sauron, greatest and most terrible of the servants of Morgoth, who in the Sindarin tongue was named Gorthaur, came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower upon Tol Sirion. Sauron was become now a sorcerer of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms, foul in wisdom, cruel in strength, misshaping what he touched, twisting what he ruled, lord of werewolves; his dominion was torment. He took Minas Tirith by assault, for a dark cloud of fear fell upon those that defended it; and Orodreth was driven out, and fled to Nargothrond. Then Sauron made it into a watch-tower for Morgoth, a stronghold of evil, and a menace; and the fair isle of Tol Sirion became accursed, and it was called Tol-in-Gaurhoth, the Isle of Werewolves. No living creature could pass through that vale that Sauron did not espy from the tower where he sat.
He only grew in strength after Morgoth was defeated.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 1:14 am to Scoob
I would like the explanation of meteor man being one of the blue wizards if it weren’t for the fact that they came to middle earth aware of their purpose.
Nobody talking about how Sauron is clearly interested in him?
Also, Elendil along with Durin are the two best characters thus far.
Nobody talking about how Sauron is clearly interested in him?
Also, Elendil along with Durin are the two best characters thus far.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 1:24 am to Sgt Tuffnuts
quote:His most powerful skill is his deception and manipulation; Morgoth was "Lucifer" the fallen angel who battled God. Sauron is more "Satan" the father of lies and temptation.
QUESTION for those who are more knowledgeable. How powerful is Sauron at this point in his career? If he wanted to, could he do 10 times as much magic as Gandalph without getting tired and cause shock and awe, or is being a shape-shifter his most powerful power?
I'd say he scales up higher than Saruman (White Wizard), as presumably he's superior to the Balrogs. I'd go with the single most powerful being on Middle Earth, now that Morgoth is gone. Questionable that he was more powerful than Melian; they didn't square off. She seemed to keep Doriath safe, even while Morgoth was rampaging, but he also didn't come down and directly challenge, try to break through the Girdle etc.
My guess is that Sauron pre-Ring, is maybe 90-95% or so of Sauron WITH the One Ring on his hand. I think it gave him a slight bump up, but mostly it made him able to control the other Rings, including the Three.
And I don't think even Gandalf, as the White Wizard, with one of the Three, is still quite at Sauron's level. Not even in LOTR, post-Ring but without it (while it existed). He was still able to draw on the power.
I wouldn't call him a standard shape-shifter, as that's not so much his power, but an indication of what he is- he's a powerful and malevolent spirit who could, at one time, manifest as whatever he wanted. He wasn't tied to a physical form, he chose whatever suited his mood. At least, until he got caught up in Numenor's demise.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 1:25 am to MRF
Agreed on durin and Elrond. Both are great characters. I’m very intrigued by the evil elf, Adar. The actor playing him is doing a great job as the antagonist.
I’m still not liking these new hobbits. They just don’t have it like in the original lotr movies.
I haven’t read the books, but I like that the writers aren’t following them exactly as written. It gives both serious readers and novice fans of the series surprises every episode.
I’m still not liking these new hobbits. They just don’t have it like in the original lotr movies.
I haven’t read the books, but I like that the writers aren’t following them exactly as written. It gives both serious readers and novice fans of the series surprises every episode.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 1:31 am to Scoob
Who are the three people that went to the meteor man’s crash site?
Posted on 9/23/22 at 1:44 am to tiger_nurse
quote:True, but the issue with that is- the material this show is trying to show, is mostly dry history. It isn't a story, it's the structure and outline of a story.
I haven’t read the books, but I like that the writers aren’t following them exactly as written. It gives both serious readers and novice fans of the series surprises every episode.
You gotta be careful if you change THAT, it's kinda like making a Superman show and saying he came from somewhere other than Krypton, and grew up in the city (instead of Smallville).
Yes, the Elves ARE fading. They will diminish, unless they go to the West. The Rings are what allows them to stay in Middle Earth, unchanged.
The Rings are why Rivendell and Lorien remain great.
The Rings bear no influence over Greenwood, and Thranduil's realm is faded to an extent. That is why Legolas isn't as glorious as, say, Celeborn or Elrond.
I'm not sure how the Elves are supposed to be infused with mithril, and I don't want to discuss one possible idea (no place in Tolkien's world for that). If mithril is supposed to be the cure-all, it's something that never gets mentioned later.
I still wonder if there's some deception already in the works.
Oh, and yeah, Adar is an interesting character and subplot.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 1:47 am to tiger_nurse
quote:They have armor, and look like bad news. I'm going with cult of Morgoth, maybe even minor Maia.
Who are the three people that went to the meteor man’s crash site?
Posted on 9/23/22 at 3:29 am to diddlydawg7
quote:I think the thing is, after Gandalf died and was sent straight back (as the White Wizard), he was foggy about things. Remember, he said "Gandalf... yes,... that's me". And although it wasn't laid out too obviously, he was brought to Lorien, and nursed up by Galadriel before they ran into him.
I would like the explanation of meteor man being one of the blue wizards if it weren’t for the fact that they came to middle earth aware of their purpose.
Using that as a reference, I could see where the idea was- the instant insertion into Middle Earth scrambled their brains a bit. Remember, Gandalf etc sail to Middle Earth in the Third Age, that's where Cirdan meets him, knows who he is, and gives him his Ring.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 4:09 am to Scoob
quote:
I'd go with the single most powerful being on Middle Earth
Posted on 9/23/22 at 4:26 am to Obtuse1
Still undecided on The Stranger, but still sticking with dark. Stubborn I am.
The continued connection with Nori does foreshadow Gandalf's affinity for Hobbits.
I wonder if Nori saw or felt something when she was frozen to him. This is the first time I want to see the Harfoots again.
Are Eminem and posse hunting or worshiping The Stranger. The one listed at the Ascetic was carrying a plate with The Strangers constellation on the back. So I would guess they are part of some cut or revision that prophesied The Stranger, good or bad.
The continued connection with Nori does foreshadow Gandalf's affinity for Hobbits.
I wonder if Nori saw or felt something when she was frozen to him. This is the first time I want to see the Harfoots again.
Are Eminem and posse hunting or worshiping The Stranger. The one listed at the Ascetic was carrying a plate with The Strangers constellation on the back. So I would guess they are part of some cut or revision that prophesied The Stranger, good or bad.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 5:28 am to Scoob
I hear ya scoob. Good points all around.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 5:57 am to Scoob
I’ll put it on later when I need to see horrific acting and writing that makes season eight of GOT look brilliant.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 7:06 am to Scoob
quote:
Elrond recites a legend that is completely unheard-of before this show, of an Elvish knight battling a Balrog for possession of one of the lost Silmarils, a
Didn't Glorfindel fight one at the fall of Gondolin? Don't remember a silmaril being involved, though.
Posted on 9/23/22 at 7:14 am to Loup
There were fights between Feanor and sons and Gothmog and other balrogs.
Echthelion killed one, Glorfindel killed one. None of these fights were directly over a silmaril. Elrond the master of lore in the show knew this tale, but didn’t believe it true. Maybe it’s not even true, but a suggestion of Sauron to Gil Galad.
Elrond’s comment that he thought the story was apocryphal made me wonder if there was a note somewhere in Tolkien’s writings referring to this battle. I have no idea if there is such a note in the vast writings of Tolkien, much of which is not considered canon (because he changed so much lore over the years). That would be clever for the show to do if true. That’s basically what he did from the Hobbit to LOTR, incorporating his change to the Bilbo-Gollum tale as an actual crucial plot point.
Echthelion killed one, Glorfindel killed one. None of these fights were directly over a silmaril. Elrond the master of lore in the show knew this tale, but didn’t believe it true. Maybe it’s not even true, but a suggestion of Sauron to Gil Galad.
Elrond’s comment that he thought the story was apocryphal made me wonder if there was a note somewhere in Tolkien’s writings referring to this battle. I have no idea if there is such a note in the vast writings of Tolkien, much of which is not considered canon (because he changed so much lore over the years). That would be clever for the show to do if true. That’s basically what he did from the Hobbit to LOTR, incorporating his change to the Bilbo-Gollum tale as an actual crucial plot point.
This post was edited on 9/23/22 at 7:23 am
Posted on 9/23/22 at 8:02 am to Scoob
still trying to figure out where the 1 billion dollars went to produce this show....pretty much nothing has happened through 5 episodes except sleep inducing dialogue.
galadriel training numenorians acting like Conan....lol ok.
i gave the show a fair shot but its just a waste of time now. wheel of time 2.0
galadriel training numenorians acting like Conan....lol ok.
i gave the show a fair shot but its just a waste of time now. wheel of time 2.0
Posted on 9/23/22 at 8:24 am to Hayekian serf
quote:
I’ll put it on later when I need to see horrific acting and writing that makes season eight of GOT look brilliant.
I’m not going to defend some of the acting or writing here, although it has been mixed with some good as well. But bad Tolkien would be better than any GoT, which is and always has been trash.
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