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Message
re: Ranking all the Star Wars films--what say you?
Posted on 5/29/18 at 10:31 am to lsufan9193969700
Posted on 5/29/18 at 10:31 am to lsufan9193969700
I've really come around on the original. I've always been an Empire guy, like most people, but after a rewatch I really appreciate the economical storytelling and worldbuilding. It's just such a terrifically crafted movie. Sure, it blatantly rips of Kurosawa and the hero's quest, but.. good things to rip off. And it makes them its own.
1. Star Wars
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. The Last Jedi
4. Rogue One
5. The Force Awakens
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
I haven't seen Solo yet. I think The Last Jedi is the great disruptor film, which is exactly what Empire is and why people love it, but it came 40 years later and we don't want things disrupted. We want soft comfortable storytelling which is understandable, but uninteresting to me. Blow the universe up, just like Empire did (though there was less mythos to destroy then).
For a series that has gotten so much mileage out of the phrase "from a certain point of view..." it's disconcerting for the fans to be so mad about their point of view being shifted in Last Jedi. It's a genuinely great movie precisely for the reasons people hate it. It tears at the fabric of the universe and upended my expectations. It's the first Star Wars film since Empire to be genuinely surprising and seemingly have real stakes.
1. Star Wars
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. The Last Jedi
4. Rogue One
5. The Force Awakens
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
I haven't seen Solo yet. I think The Last Jedi is the great disruptor film, which is exactly what Empire is and why people love it, but it came 40 years later and we don't want things disrupted. We want soft comfortable storytelling which is understandable, but uninteresting to me. Blow the universe up, just like Empire did (though there was less mythos to destroy then).
For a series that has gotten so much mileage out of the phrase "from a certain point of view..." it's disconcerting for the fans to be so mad about their point of view being shifted in Last Jedi. It's a genuinely great movie precisely for the reasons people hate it. It tears at the fabric of the universe and upended my expectations. It's the first Star Wars film since Empire to be genuinely surprising and seemingly have real stakes.
1
Posted on 5/29/18 at 10:36 am to Baloo
quote:
seemingly have real stakes.
Real stakes? In what way? Nothing happened in that entire movie and every time a character was in a situation with any gravity or stakes they were immediately saved or the audience was fooled and they were safe the entire time.
And then, at the end of the movie, no one gives a shite. They finally send out the resistance signal and "it was received. No one's coming". Even the people inside the universe don't give a shite about the resistance. Why should I?
And how the frick did that little kid at the end know the intricate details of the fight scene between Luke and Kylo?
This post was edited on 5/29/18 at 10:38 am
Posted on 5/29/18 at 10:39 am to Breesus
The rebellion is completely crushed even more thoroughly than it was in Empire, which as Dante in Clerks reminds us, is a series of down endings. Yet in crushing the Resistance, the First Order itself is stripped down, destroyed, and remade.
And for the first time in the entire run of the series, the villains make a compelling argument. Sure, they are still stand ins for the Nazis, but Kylo's argument to kill the past is compelling... and probably correct.
And for the first time in the entire run of the series, the villains make a compelling argument. Sure, they are still stand ins for the Nazis, but Kylo's argument to kill the past is compelling... and probably correct.
This post was edited on 5/29/18 at 10:40 am
Posted on 5/29/18 at 10:47 am to Breesus
quote:
Fans had been waiting for 3 decades to see Mark Hamil reprise Luke Skywalker. Then Disney made a movie and the entire plot point of that movie was to find Luke Skywalker. Then that movie, which was the start of a trilogy, ended with a single shot of Luke and promised he'd be back and let all that anticipation stew for 2 years. and then finally Rian Johnson took all of that goodwill and anticipation and used it in the first scene of the movie to destroy Star Wars. Destroyed it. And not a single person involved with the production of the movie stepped in to say "hey, maybe this is a bad idea".
Truer words have never been posted on TD.
And we're not even mentioning LUKE FREAKING SKYWALKER CALLING A LIGHTSABER A "LASER SWORD".
Posted on 5/29/18 at 10:57 am to Baloo
I'm going to go ahead and get this rant out of my system and then quit talking about Star Wars on this board for a while.
I love Star Wars, and watching it destroyed by godawful film making and writing is unbearable. And then watching the excuses and nonsense about why it isn't so bad is even worse.
Yeah the problem is that in empire, we cared about the rebellion. We cared about their characters and we got to see them fight and grow and you wanted to see Luke come back in the next one. You wanted to see Han get rescued. You wanted to see Vader get his due. You wanted to see the resistance come back. And you were eager to find out just how they'd do it.
In the original trilogy, we watched Luke go from a little farm kid to a Jedi. We saw him train and learn under two masters. We watched Han go from a Rogue smuggler to a resistance fighter. From an uncaring a-hole to a good friend. We saw the Rebels fitting guerrilla style and winning battles here and there until they started turning the tide of the war.
We saw a trilogy where the characters had depth and meaning. Where the story actually meant something.
There's a reason that 41 years later people are still in love with that original trilogy. That's not something that happens everyday and it's not something that's easy to re-create.
If the movie after Empire was about Vader crushing the resistance completely and killing Luke and Han and Leia and Chewy and eveyone else, there would've been backlash. People would've been upset that these characters we watched develop and grow on screen didn't triumph in the end. And that's because Star Wars and Empire are both extremely well made movies with solid characters and developed story arcs.
People still to this day are fans of even random little characters in those movies like the xwing pilots. There's nothing like that in this new trilogy. Nothing.
Has anyone ever made an argument that you care for anyone in the new movie resistance team? I sure as frick don't. And most people I know feel the same way.
Rey is a little Mary Sue who has never failed at anything and never grown or developed as a character. She started the beginning of TFA as an all powerful Jedi master level good hearted hero and had never once grown or faltered from that. It's boring and insulting considering what every single other Jedi character in the universe had to go through.
Finn actually started to grow as a character but then didn't because some stupid bitch stopped him by ramming his ship and ruining his arc and sacrifice and delivered possibly the worst line of dialogue I have ever heard in a movie.
Leia is apparently some kind of immortal God who is either too stupid or too lazy to hone her force skills which makes her unlikable. Oh, also, Carrie Fischer is dead and they've already said 100 times she integral to the next movie so I can't wait to watch her hologramed or recast.
Poe is the only one who is somewhat likeable but his character is so often attacked and shite on by eveyone else in the movie it makes you hate seeing him on screen.
So that's how TLJ ends. A cast of unlikable and undeveloped characters sitting in a cave and sending out an unanswered distress signal because not even the people inside the movie give a shite about them.
At the end of Empire, I was on the edge of my seat waiting to see what would happen.
At the end of The Last Jedi, I forgot this was a trilogy and when I remembered that I couldn't care less about seeing the third movie.
Kylo is the only character in either of the new movies worth caring about. Adam Driver knocked that role out of the park.
He's unique in this series. He actually has depth and growth and a character arc. I hope the next movie is him brutally slaughtering Rose, Finn, Rey, and Leia and then making Poe his main general as they go off to just wreck shite throughout the galaxy and rule the First Order with an iron fist.
Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy thunderously answered one question in the affirmative: Could it get worse than the prequels? Yes. It absolutely could.
I love Star Wars, and watching it destroyed by godawful film making and writing is unbearable. And then watching the excuses and nonsense about why it isn't so bad is even worse.
quote:
The rebellion is completely crushed even more thoroughly than it was in Empire
Yeah the problem is that in empire, we cared about the rebellion. We cared about their characters and we got to see them fight and grow and you wanted to see Luke come back in the next one. You wanted to see Han get rescued. You wanted to see Vader get his due. You wanted to see the resistance come back. And you were eager to find out just how they'd do it.
In the original trilogy, we watched Luke go from a little farm kid to a Jedi. We saw him train and learn under two masters. We watched Han go from a Rogue smuggler to a resistance fighter. From an uncaring a-hole to a good friend. We saw the Rebels fitting guerrilla style and winning battles here and there until they started turning the tide of the war.
We saw a trilogy where the characters had depth and meaning. Where the story actually meant something.
There's a reason that 41 years later people are still in love with that original trilogy. That's not something that happens everyday and it's not something that's easy to re-create.
If the movie after Empire was about Vader crushing the resistance completely and killing Luke and Han and Leia and Chewy and eveyone else, there would've been backlash. People would've been upset that these characters we watched develop and grow on screen didn't triumph in the end. And that's because Star Wars and Empire are both extremely well made movies with solid characters and developed story arcs.
People still to this day are fans of even random little characters in those movies like the xwing pilots. There's nothing like that in this new trilogy. Nothing.
Has anyone ever made an argument that you care for anyone in the new movie resistance team? I sure as frick don't. And most people I know feel the same way.
Rey is a little Mary Sue who has never failed at anything and never grown or developed as a character. She started the beginning of TFA as an all powerful Jedi master level good hearted hero and had never once grown or faltered from that. It's boring and insulting considering what every single other Jedi character in the universe had to go through.
Finn actually started to grow as a character but then didn't because some stupid bitch stopped him by ramming his ship and ruining his arc and sacrifice and delivered possibly the worst line of dialogue I have ever heard in a movie.
Leia is apparently some kind of immortal God who is either too stupid or too lazy to hone her force skills which makes her unlikable. Oh, also, Carrie Fischer is dead and they've already said 100 times she integral to the next movie so I can't wait to watch her hologramed or recast.
Poe is the only one who is somewhat likeable but his character is so often attacked and shite on by eveyone else in the movie it makes you hate seeing him on screen.
So that's how TLJ ends. A cast of unlikable and undeveloped characters sitting in a cave and sending out an unanswered distress signal because not even the people inside the movie give a shite about them.
At the end of Empire, I was on the edge of my seat waiting to see what would happen.
At the end of The Last Jedi, I forgot this was a trilogy and when I remembered that I couldn't care less about seeing the third movie.
quote:
Kylo's argument to kill the past is compelling... and probably correct.
Kylo is the only character in either of the new movies worth caring about. Adam Driver knocked that role out of the park.
He's unique in this series. He actually has depth and growth and a character arc. I hope the next movie is him brutally slaughtering Rose, Finn, Rey, and Leia and then making Poe his main general as they go off to just wreck shite throughout the galaxy and rule the First Order with an iron fist.
Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy thunderously answered one question in the affirmative: Could it get worse than the prequels? Yes. It absolutely could.
This post was edited on 5/29/18 at 11:31 am
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