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re: Official history Channel Hatfield's & McCoy's mini series thread
Posted on 6/1/12 at 7:46 am to alajones
Posted on 6/1/12 at 7:46 am to alajones
quote:
BTW, does everyone see how easy it is to keep every thought that pops into your head about a TV show in one thread?
fricking thank you. If anyone had a question about reading up on this. They asked in here. Want to compare characters, point out flaws, start an unfunny gag about guns, ALL IN HERE.
1
Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:27 am to swamie
Haven't read the whole thread but I'm sure it's been discussed how the show portrayed them as wilderness and tough but in reality they were a bunch of backwards, drunk, inbred, hillbilly yokels as you could get. Didn't McCoy marry his first cousin and have like 10 children with her and then remarry and have like 5 more. I'm not so sure the Hatfields tree didn't branch either .
Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:28 am to USMCTiger03
quote:I don't see how it is anymore "right" to hire a bunch of thugs, "deputize" them, and send them out to round up and or kill everyone they assumed was associated with that execution.
from the perspective of right and wrong
Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:34 am to alajones
quote:If that is what happened, I would agree. Did you watch the shows? Did you see what McCoy's reaction was to the scalping? When you say round up, is that different than "arrest for legal prosecution for alleged crime"?
I don't see how it is anymore "right" to hire a bunch of thugs, "deputize" them, and send them out to round up and or kill everyone they assumed was associated with that execution.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:34 am to Cdawg
I think McCoy remarrying would be the first mention in this thread.
But their lack of chromosomes has been discussed thoroughly.
But their lack of chromosomes has been discussed thoroughly.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:36 am to AlxTgr
quote:Really?
Did you watch the shows?
quote:Whatever.
Did you see what McCoy's reaction was to the scalping?
quote:Okay. That's what Bad Frank was doing.
When you say round up, is that different than "arrest for legal prosecution for alleged crime"?
This post was edited on 6/1/12 at 8:37 am
Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:42 am to alajones
Whatever? Because it doesn't fit your entrenched idea? 
I think reasonable minds can differ and point out actual events without this type of thing.
I think reasonable minds can differ and point out actual events without this type of thing.Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:48 am to AlxTgr
It didn't mean anything. Yes, he was initially horrified at the scalping, but he obviously got over it real quick. It meant nothing. They eventually hired Bad Frank anyway and commenced to ambushing and killing or "legally arresting" seeing as how they were all law abiding deputies and definitely not a bunch of bounty hunter hired thugs.
What was the real distinction between the Hatfields taking the McCoy boys and executing them and a bunch of hired guns working for the McCoys ambushing and killing Hatfields? Or anyone else they just happened upon in the woods.
What was the real distinction between the Hatfields taking the McCoy boys and executing them and a bunch of hired guns working for the McCoys ambushing and killing Hatfields? Or anyone else they just happened upon in the woods.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:51 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Did you see what McCoy's reaction was to the scalping?
He paid the scalper $250 and eventually set him up as a marshal so he could continue to kidnap and murder across state lines??
This post was edited on 6/1/12 at 8:52 am
Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:53 am to alajones
quote:I guess I can't really answer, as that is not what I recall happening. The McCoys never performed a cop/prosecutor/jury/judge situation under a tree.
What was the real distinction between the Hatfields taking the McCoy boys and executing them and a bunch of hired guns working for the McCoys ambushing and killing Hatfields? Or anyone else they just happened upon in the woods.
quote:
It didn't mean anything. Yes, he was initially horrified at the scalping, but he obviously got over it real quick. It meant nothing.
I just don't see how you can say that. It means everything. It's the fundemental difference between McCoy and Anse. One has some sense of honor, code, law etc. The other has none. You are hung up on the hiring. I am not. Not sure how much more control could have been exerted.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 8:59 am to AlxTgr
quote:No they didn't, they just hired people to do it.
The McCoys never performed a cop/prosecutor/jury/judge situation under a tree.
quote:I don't know what to say about that statement. I don't consider hiring a bunch of thugs for your revenge honor. While the show makes it clear that McCoy's intentions were to go to the law to settle things with his sons executions, it was clear to everyone what Bad Frank and his gang were all about.
One has some sense of honor, code, law etc. The other has none.
You have obviously chosen sides and nothing I can type will change that so there is no reason to continue this conversation. I'm going to be like Devil Anse and not respond anymore.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 9:02 am to AlxTgr
quote:
I just don't see how you can say that. It means everything. It's the fundemental difference between McCoy and Anse. One has some sense of honor, code, law etc. The other has none. You are hung up on the hiring. I am not. Not sure how much more control could have been exerted.
The fundamental difference is that McCoy was initially disgusted but decided those tactics were worth it to get his revenge? Both Patriarchs acted similarly, McCoy just tried to wrap his actions in Christianity and the law and keep them at arms length. He basically lied to himself the entire time.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 9:05 am to alajones
quote:That's unfortunate.
I'm going to be like Devil Anse and not respond anymore.
quote:Why do you think they did that? They were following the law. Are you saying all bounties back then were bad? They were paid by LE all the time.
No they didn't, they just hired people to do it.
quote:
I don't know what to say about that statement. I don't consider hiring a bunch of thugs for your revenge honor. While the show makes it clear that McCoy's intentions were to go to the law to settle things with his sons executions, it was clear to everyone what Bad Frank and his gang were all about.
We are comparing two groups of pretty terrible people. I am not even attempting to say the McCoys were good. It's just a contrast between the two. They were the better of the two groups of terrible people-at the top anyway. Some of the younger McCoys were just as shitty as all of the Hatfields. Particulary the leader of the 3 who were going to execute Johnse.
At the top, I don't think there is any question though.
Bad Frank? I don't see why he even comes up. he was pretty terrible. He was also the only one that was not going to show up dead on the porch for attempting to arrest people accused of the worst kind of murder.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 9:12 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Bad Frank? I don't see why he even comes up. he was pretty terrible. He was also the only one that was not going to show up dead on the porch for attempting to arrest people accused of the worst kind of murder.
He comes up because he was an extension of Randall McCoy's will. He allowed McCoy to stay above the fray and pretend innocence while all the time his hired man was murdering Hatfields and extending the feud.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 9:27 am to MediTiger
The difference if in the same situation:
Anse: "Bad Frank, you go kill every McCoy you see."
Randall: "Bad Frank, I loathe everything you're about, but you're all I've got now that the honest men have been killed. Go arrest the people responsible for this and return them to Kentucky for trial."
People were actually put in a jail in Kentucky. In WVa, only the ground.
Anse: "Bad Frank, you go kill every McCoy you see."
Randall: "Bad Frank, I loathe everything you're about, but you're all I've got now that the honest men have been killed. Go arrest the people responsible for this and return them to Kentucky for trial."
People were actually put in a jail in Kentucky. In WVa, only the ground.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 9:29 am to AlxTgr
Some of you aren't considering the actual facts and timeline of all this. You're looking only at the TV series.
1882 was when the three McCoy boys were executed by Anse and the Hatfields. At that time a Kentucky court issued indictments for Anse and 20 of his supporters, but nothing was ever done to extradite and arrest them. For five years Randall McCoy frequently visited Pikeville to try to get Perry Cline to see if he could get the government to act, but Cline avoided doing anything because he knew nothing would come of it. To the government, this was between just two families in backwoods America, and there were other things more pertinent.
Finally, in 1887, Cline agreed to intercede on Randall's behalf and persuaded the government to offer rewards for Anse and others involved. Before 1887, neither the KY or WV governments really gave a crap, but now industrialization of the US was starting to encroach into this backwoods area and a railroad was coming. Both governments thought it might be a good idea to clean this little mess up. Private detectives then invaded the mountains looking for these guys, increasing the level of violence. This pissed Anse and his bunch off, and they decided to take out Randall, leading to the 1888 New Years attack on Randall's cabin and murdering of his kids.
Randall McCoy did nothing more than pester the law for 5 years, which rekindled the second phase of the feud.
1882 was when the three McCoy boys were executed by Anse and the Hatfields. At that time a Kentucky court issued indictments for Anse and 20 of his supporters, but nothing was ever done to extradite and arrest them. For five years Randall McCoy frequently visited Pikeville to try to get Perry Cline to see if he could get the government to act, but Cline avoided doing anything because he knew nothing would come of it. To the government, this was between just two families in backwoods America, and there were other things more pertinent.
Finally, in 1887, Cline agreed to intercede on Randall's behalf and persuaded the government to offer rewards for Anse and others involved. Before 1887, neither the KY or WV governments really gave a crap, but now industrialization of the US was starting to encroach into this backwoods area and a railroad was coming. Both governments thought it might be a good idea to clean this little mess up. Private detectives then invaded the mountains looking for these guys, increasing the level of violence. This pissed Anse and his bunch off, and they decided to take out Randall, leading to the 1888 New Years attack on Randall's cabin and murdering of his kids.
Randall McCoy did nothing more than pester the law for 5 years, which rekindled the second phase of the feud.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 9:33 am to MasonTiger
quote:duh
Some of you aren't considering the actual facts and timeline of all this. You're looking only at the TV series.
quote:That was pretty bad.
and they decided to take out Randall, leading to the 1888 New Years attack on Randall's cabin and murdering of his kids.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 9:40 am to AlxTgr
quote:
duh
Sorry...I get a little carried away with this stuff...family history and all. quote:Yeah, that was the ultimate FU by Anse and the Hatfields and turned everyone against them. Anse knew it too, that's why he wasn't about to step in on Ellison Mount's hanging, and probably hoped it would finally take the attention away from him and his family and finally end all this. In truth, that was probably what the governments had in mind too...hang someone to show this crap wouldn't continue to be tolerated. I guess they saw poor slow Ellison as a good scapegoat and not much of a loss to the community, and he had been accused of shooting Randall's daughter (although Randall's other daughter and his wife both said Cap did it).
That was pretty bad.
This post was edited on 6/1/12 at 9:49 am
Posted on 6/1/12 at 9:57 am to MasonTiger
quote:
Sorry...I get a little carried away with this stuff...family history and all.
I've enjoyed your posts in this thread. Better than trying to get an understanding of it all from wiki.
Posted on 6/1/12 at 10:02 am to swamie
quote:
I've enjoyed your posts in this thread. Better than trying to get an understanding of it all from wiki.
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