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Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:44 pm to Roaad
quote:
Think about the view of the government and the military that existed during WWII. He is from that time.
Cynicism just wasn't so widespread in that time, with that clear enemy.
i know this won't shock anyone, but i don't really like hero archetypes from that era
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:46 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:which is 2-dimensional by definition, at least.
banner was the smart guy struggling with the hulk
1) Smart scientist
2) Guy struggling with the Hulk.
I liked Norton better, but Ruffalo held his own.
quote:Held group together. Began questioning his superiors. Constantly trying to understand the world around him.
how were cap
quote:Loves his brother through it all. That touched me in a way.
thor
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:46 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but i didn't dislike the movie
I know you said that in your first post, but you've gone out of the way since then to overanalyze the film and break it apart.
There's a large gap between 1-dimensional character and Micheal Corleone. Most of these characters fit somewhere safely in the middle, mostly because they have OTHER films to worryn about.
You're looking for some great journey of one character in this film. What you forget to realize is that this film did something remarkable: The journey isn't about ONE character, or even 3 of them. It's about THE AVENGERS. That's the main character. That's the Micheal Corleone in this film. That's the 3-Dimensional character, if that's what you're looking for. You're focusing too much on the parts and not looking at the whole.
You're straddling the fence. I usually agree with you but this smells a lot like being one of the few to hate on the film just to stem the tide of people loving it.
This post was edited on 5/6/12 at 6:47 pm
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:47 pm to TheDarkestNight
quote:
and really doesn't like Hulking up, but when he does, he can smash everything and anything put in his way.
like with the captain america placement issues, going more into this on screen (and not via assumption) would have helped
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:47 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:I love the purity of purpose.
but i don't really like hero archetypes from that era
They could do more to contrast him to this era, but I think there was plenty of clever dialogue that got the general point across.
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:48 pm to Roaad
quote:
I liked Norton better, but Ruffalo held his own.
i think i liked ruffalo better. i think it may be purely be subconscious rejection of norton's babyface. ruffalo looked more ragged, like a man would after being in his position for so long
i can't see edward norton delivering the line about trying to shoot himself as well as ruffalo did
quote:
Loves his brother through it all.
naw. he's adopted
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Another Joss Whedon hallmark gem.
naw. he's adopted
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:50 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:I really enjoyed Captain America, but I just really didn't in this movie.
i know this won't shock anyone, but i don't really like hero archetypes from that era
I think if Thor2 had come before Avengers, he would have been more dynamically set up.
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:51 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
It's about THE AVENGERS. That's the main character. That's the Micheal Corleone in this film. That's the 3-Dimensional character, if that's what you're looking for. You're focusing too much on the parts and not looking at the whole.
i'll give you that
given the villains who were no match, it seems that creating apprehension of failure would have been better served by having the heroes have a lot more drama in the middle than they did. if you wanna go there, then fine...delve into that more
now this is highly unlikely b/c of 2 things: (1) it would have made it more serious and (2) it would have moved the targeted age range up a few years. i get why it was much safer to go the route that they did
quote:
being one of the few to hate on the film just to stem the tide of people loving it.
when people start saying this is a better movie than first class, i have to stand up against bullies for those who can't defend themselves
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:52 pm to Roaad
quote:I mean that was set up from the beginning, his dad didn't use his power to send him back to get Jane, but makes him go back to fetch his brother.
Loves his brother through it all. That touched me in a way.
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:53 pm to southernelite
quote:
I really enjoyed Captain America,
even as a little kid i could never get captain america
i did ditch marvel like a bad habit when image came out, though. and i was a bigger fan of the new mutant than x-men after the initial x-men surge. making them the hunted during the x-ecutioner's saga was awesome
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'll give you that
given the villains who were no match, it seems that creating apprehension of failure would have been better served by having the heroes have a lot more drama in the middle than they did. if you wanna go there, then fine...delve into that more
now this is highly unlikely b/c of 2 things: (1) it would have made it more serious and (2) it would have moved the targeted age range up a few years. i get why it was much safer to go the route that they did
Fair enough. But I think you missed on the main character arcs, slight as they were.
You clearly mention Iron Man as being the only complex character, but that's just not true.
1. Iron-Man - Learns that the team is just as important as the individual. His moment of change: Listening to orders from Cap.
2. Captain America - Realizes that he has a stake in the modern world too. Remember the line "Trying to get me back in the world." He felt out of place, that he didn't matter, that it was important for him to act. And he realized, when saving the young woman, that he IS important, that given all the passing of time, there are still weak to be protected. That's why Whedon kept forcing that point. He needed to save a building full of people by himself to realize that.
3. Hulk - He learned that his anger CAN be channeled for good. Granted, this one is weak because we didn't see the climax for Hulk, but at least it's implied.
4. Thor - That even without his love, the world still needs a hero. And that he must take responsibility for bringing this entire situation to him. That is on his shoulders.
quote:
when people start saying this is a better movie than first class, i have to stand up against bullies for those who can't defend themselves
These are two different films. Avengers did better at telling a story about a group of people. X-Men did better about creating a universe to explore. Avengers didn't have to do that.
This post was edited on 5/6/12 at 6:58 pm
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:commie bastard.
even as a little kid i could never get captain america
Never cared for X-Men, watched the movies, they were alright, but I like the MCU movies a lot more.
And I'm really glad that Universal owns the right to Spider-Man, cause he would be a million times more out of place than Cap.
Posted on 5/6/12 at 6:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
even as a little kid i could never get captain america
And there's your problem with the entire character, it has nothing to do with him being a weak character, it's just your mindset. And that's ok.
Posted on 5/6/12 at 7:01 pm to Freauxzen
quote:he didn't really though. He told Cap to give everyone else orders and did his own thing.
1. Iron-Man - Learns that the team is just as important as the individual. His moment of change: Listening to orders from Cap.
The whole humanity over self thing didn't happen til he grabbed the nuke. [
Posted on 5/6/12 at 7:02 pm to Freauxzen
freaux, i need your email 
Posted on 5/6/12 at 7:04 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
And there's your problem with the entire character, it has nothing to do with him being a weak character, it's just your mindset.
my mindset sees him as a weak character, and always has
fwiw, i never could get into hulk, either. he was always a great secondary guy to throw into a random storyline though
i did watch teh frick out of the tv show as a kid, though
Posted on 5/6/12 at 7:04 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
when people start saying this is a better movie than first class, i have to stand up against bullies for those who can't defend themselves
Because it is better than First Class. Before this movie there have been 4 superhero team up movies, ironically all from Marvel and all X-Men movie. This movie was superior to them in every single way.
I'm excluding Watchmen btw, because those characters really only exist as a unit while the X-Men existed outside of being one whole unit.
Posted on 5/6/12 at 7:05 pm to southernelite
quote:No he didn't.
He told Cap to give everyone else orders and did his own thing.
He followed Caps orders explicitly.
That was the moment they functioned as a unit.
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