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re: Lord of the Rings: The first and second age movies

Posted on 8/12/13 at 5:06 pm to
Posted by ZTiger87
Member since Nov 2009
11536 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 5:06 pm to
quote:

and all of this is in the Similraion or whatever its called?



Not sure. Could be Unfinished Tales.
Posted by PillageUrVillage
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
16044 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 6:59 pm to
quote:

why not?


Not all Maiar are of equivalent power. The wizards were known as Istari. Also, Sauron had no artificial limitations on his power whereas Wizards were limited by their mortal bodies and the restrictions they labored under. However a Wizard (or Elf Lord) claiming the Ring would diminish Sauron to an extent that the new bearer would be more powerful. See Gandalf/Galadrial's comments when offered the Ring.

quote:

Valar sent several Maiar to Middle-earth to help contest the evil of Sauron. They had great skills of hand and mind but were cloaked in the guise of men, seemingly old but of great vigour.[4] Their mission was to guide elves and men by gaining trust and spreading knowledge, not by ruling them with fear and force. They were known as the Istari, or Wizards


Maiar wiki
This post was edited on 8/12/13 at 7:01 pm
Posted by WhiskerBiscuitSlayer
Your Mom’s Sperm Donor
Member since Jan 2013
13900 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 8:00 pm to
quote:

and all of this is in the Similraion or whatever its called?


Its kind of a mix of the two.
Posted by Wild Thang
YAW YAW Fooball Nation
Member since Jun 2009
44181 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 8:07 pm to
quote:

Not all Maiar are of equivalent power. The wizards were known as Istari. Also, Sauron had no artificial limitations on his power whereas Wizards were limited by their mortal bodies and the restrictions they labored under. However a Wizard (or Elf Lord) claiming the Ring would diminish Sauron to an extent that the new bearer would be more powerful. See Gandalf/Galadrial's comments when offered the Ring.


Never knew this.
Posted by PillageUrVillage
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
16044 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 8:29 pm to
quote:

Never knew this.


Tolkien's universe is so vast, it's almost impossible to know (or remember) everything. I'm a geek for this stuff, but I often have to look things up.
This post was edited on 8/12/13 at 8:30 pm
Posted by WhiskerBiscuitSlayer
Your Mom’s Sperm Donor
Member since Jan 2013
13900 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 9:33 pm to
quote:

Tolkien's universe is so vast, it's almost impossible to know (or remember) everything.


This is the truth, it makes for some really interesting reading though.
Posted by boxcarbarney
Above all things, be a man
Member since Jul 2007
26722 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 10:03 pm to
So was Sauron sent to middle earth, or did he just go there on his own?
Posted by PillageUrVillage
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
16044 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 10:22 pm to
quote:

So was Sauron sent to middle earth, or did he just go there on his own?



Not sure what you're asking. Are you wanting to know how he came into existence?
Posted by Ye_Olde_Tiger
Member since Oct 2004
1205 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 10:25 pm to
quote:

So was Sauron sent to middle earth, or did he just go there on his own?


Sauron was a Maiar, second in command and a lessor Ainur to Melkor, who was the original bad guy, and the most powerful, singularly of the Ainur.

Melkor came first. He perverted elves to create orcs originally. Melkor created dragons and balrogs. Sauron was only his lieutenant.

Other than Sauron, Galadriel, is the oldest living person if you will, during the Lord of the Rings story.
Posted by JB Bama
Tuscaloosa, AL
Member since Sep 2008
2670 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 10:58 pm to
What does that make Tom Bombadil?
Posted by PillageUrVillage
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
16044 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 11:05 pm to
Melkor

This explains pretty much everything. It's way too much to type. And probably too much to read. But I'll highlight some of the important parts.

quote:

So when the Valar had built Valinor, Melkor built his second, lesser fortress of Angband in the west, as a defense from the West should they attack. Angband was delved into the Iron Mountains, and was given to Sauron to command


That's how he came to Middle Earth.

From the Sauron section

quote:

In the earliest of days, before the Valar entered Arda, Sauron was originally known as Mairon the Admirable, a powerful Maia of Aulë the Smith, who was a Vala, creator of Dwarves. However, Mairon was soon corrupted by the Dark Lord Morgoth ("The Great Enemy" in the tongue of men) an evil Valar and Dark Enemy of Arda, and turned evil, taking the name, "Sauron." At first, he was a spy for Morgoth, telling him of the Valar's doings. Ever after, Sauron served Morgoth faithfully, and even in later days, after Morgoth was defeated and locked outside the confines of the world, Sauron encouraged and coerced some men to worship Morgoth as the one and true god. However, while Morgoth wanted to either control or destroy the very matter of Arda itself, Sauron's desire was to dominate the minds and wills of its creatures, as well as establish himself as the ruler of Arda from his tower of Barad-dûr in Mordor. However, he originally dwelt in Angband in the Iron Mountains for a period of time before Melkor came and claimed it again in the First Age.


Morgoth = Melkor

Arda = Earth
This post was edited on 8/12/13 at 11:07 pm
Posted by PillageUrVillage
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
16044 posts
Posted on 8/12/13 at 11:13 pm to
quote:

What does that make Tom Bombadil?


He's believed to be one of the Maiar. He's been around since the beginning. In LOTR somewhere it said how he has been around since before the dark lord came. Whether that was Melkor or Sauron was never specified, but it would still be the first age.
Posted by boxcarbarney
Above all things, be a man
Member since Jul 2007
26722 posts
Posted on 8/13/13 at 4:23 pm to
quote:

Not sure what you're asking. Are you wanting to know how he came into existence?


I'm making the assumption that if Sauron is part of some higher race of beings, that he comes from somewhere else; Heaven, Hell, another dimension. I was wondering if he came to Middle Earth because he was sent there, or if came by himself.
Posted by mizzoukills
Member since Aug 2011
40686 posts
Posted on 8/13/13 at 4:37 pm to
Tom Bombadil is God. Tolkien never confirmed or denied this, but he implies it to be true.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
115483 posts
Posted on 8/13/13 at 4:59 pm to
quote:

Tom Bombadil is God. Tolkien never confirmed or denied this, but he implies it to be true


He (JRRT) certainly states (in the Council of Elrond) that TB could take and hold the Ring and would never be tempted by it, which certainly places him high up there. However, I think Gandalf also makes the statement to the effect that TB could not hold out against the entire host of Mordor (and God certainly could). Plus, Gandalf gives the impression that TB was too careless and could not be trusted to be vigilant regarding the Ring (again, a trait that would seem to run contrary to JRRT's faith - big time Christian).
Posted by PillageUrVillage
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
16044 posts
Posted on 8/13/13 at 9:46 pm to
quote:

Tom Bombadil is God. Tolkien never confirmed or denied this, but he implies it to be true.
quote:

'There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers.' The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 181, dated 1956
Posted by PillageUrVillage
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
16044 posts
Posted on 8/13/13 at 9:47 pm to
quote:

I'm making the assumption that if Sauron is part of some higher race of beings, that he comes from somewhere else; Heaven, Hell, another dimension. I was wondering if he came to Middle Earth because he was sent there, or if came by himself.


He came to Arda (earth) with the Valar and Maiar after its creation.

I guess you could call it heaven, Tolkien called it the Timeless Hall... Or something like that.
This post was edited on 8/13/13 at 9:52 pm
Posted by Wild Thang
YAW YAW Fooball Nation
Member since Jun 2009
44181 posts
Posted on 8/13/13 at 10:26 pm to
Where does all this info come from?

And, would Jackson be able to make a movie off the beginings of Middle Earth?
Posted by PillageUrVillage
Mordor
Member since Mar 2011
16044 posts
Posted on 8/13/13 at 10:47 pm to
Mostly from the books. I've read pretty much all of them with the exception of a few from The Complete History of Middle Earth. But you can find the answer to almost any question you might have here.

quote:

And, would Jackson be able to make a movie off the beginings of Middle Earth?


He'd be able to make a whole bunch of them if the demand was there.
This post was edited on 8/13/13 at 10:48 pm
Posted by gthog61
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
71001 posts
Posted on 8/13/13 at 11:02 pm to
In our time some of these Maier have come to Middle Atlantic Seaboard and are hidden under the cloak of a mediocre professional basketball team.
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