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re: I remember when the M/TV board was one of the last bastions to avoid all the political BS
Posted on 12/20/17 at 6:01 pm to molsusports
Posted on 12/20/17 at 6:01 pm to molsusports
quote:
I don't think you've stepped back far enough to think about what this means to children. We are a long ways away from the time when a ridiculous dumb woman (as well played by Lucille Ball) was deemed acceptable by many in the general public. But that extension of decency should implicitly be a common decency that applies to everyone.
If is fine to have a Barney Fife if you have an Andy to balance him out. You can have a Homer or Peter Griffin but you ought to think at some point about there being some admirable male characters who are the equal of the women.
It would not be ok if the genders were reversed and that is all you need to realize to decide the subtext is immoral.
Can we list off a ton of movies that men are portrayed the way that many feel they in TLJ? Dont you think that there would need to be quite a large trend for it to have an overall effect on how kids view things. And I guarantee there arent many kids out there thinking, after seeing this, that its ok for male characters can be diminished or be idiots without any balance. Given that its not even a large amount of grownups that feel that way, much less kids. Also, pardon me if I didnt really get the message that you were trying to get across.
1
Posted on 12/20/17 at 6:08 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
I feel people can make whatever films what they want and espouse whatever political beliefs they desire. I think it's unwise to be so cavalier with a property like Star Wars, and I wish there was both more forethought and more respect paid to the material. It disappoints me greatly that someone allowed it to happen, that's all.
I just dont think this is the case. I think this political belief that you feel that was being pushed or cavalier about doesnt even exist. It disappoints me that the political system is so divisive and screwed up that people cant look at anything without thinking there is an agenda behind it.
As I mention two posts ago, I think the movie wasnt that great for the typical reasons a movie isnt that great.
I guess people forget that about %50 of these movies have been pretty average movies, I was underwhelmed, but it didnt surprise me at all
Posted on 12/20/17 at 6:54 pm to iwyLSUiwy
I feel like you are avoiding the central issue. This would not be ok if the genders were reversed.
I can sit down and make a list of the bad media with dumb men in commercials, sit coms, and movies but it won't matter to you unless you acknowledge the difference in treatment.
We could also sit down and talk about the large numbers of young boys with no positive role models at home, in school, in their school readings, etc. We could point out how this has changed over the last 30 years at the same the rates of boys graduating from high schools and colleges continues to drop. Any reasonable person would look at the gaps and very eager to provide more positive role models for boys because they are not being given those at home, in schools, or in public media to nearly the same level as their sisters.
I can sit down and make a list of the bad media with dumb men in commercials, sit coms, and movies but it won't matter to you unless you acknowledge the difference in treatment.
We could also sit down and talk about the large numbers of young boys with no positive role models at home, in school, in their school readings, etc. We could point out how this has changed over the last 30 years at the same the rates of boys graduating from high schools and colleges continues to drop. Any reasonable person would look at the gaps and very eager to provide more positive role models for boys because they are not being given those at home, in schools, or in public media to nearly the same level as their sisters.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:12 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
You know I have nothing but respect for you, I was glad to see your posts when I got on. When I said that nit picking every male character was b.s., that was no hard feelings
I know
quote:
I just think there were plenty of arguments against those reasons listed, it wasnt this black and white. The diversity or diminishing the male role, however you want to put it, is in itself a bland argument.
That's fair.
quote:
Looking for more stuff to hate on or complain about seems to be the trend. There were weak points in the story, they, imo, botched certain characters (Snoke for example, someone with that much power would have easily knew a lightsaber was moving next to him), unexplainable scenes (Leia doesnt get blown up or even die in space but just reaches her hand out and floats like mary poppins back to the ship), and just bad acting (obviously Carrie Fisher, that was to be expected, but her acting has somehow gotten worse).
I feel like there were plenty of reasons to complain, if you didnt enjoy the movie, other than politics. I just dont get it. Thats what I meant when I said people are just looking for something to get offended or complain about. I talked to maybe 10 friends about the movie before I got on here, and not a single person talked about there being some agenda behind the movie. I get on here, and thats %90 of the conversation.
I disliked that I looked at it that way honestly. I don't like either to "find" those things, nor do I go looking for them. But when I have this really bad feeling from a film, I start to wonder why, that's all. Was the stuff outside of the story, and legit narrative complaints, made up? Maybe, and that's probably a holdover from my grad school days, but it just seems odd to me at least.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:14 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
I just dont think this is the case. I think this political belief that you feel that was being pushed or cavalier about doesnt even exist. It disappoints me that the political system is so divisive and screwed up that people cant look at anything without thinking there is an agenda behind it.
As I mention two posts ago, I think the movie wasnt that great for the typical reasons a movie isnt that great.
I guess people forget that about %50 of these movies have been pretty average movies, I was underwhelmed, but it didnt surprise me at all
When I say "so cavalier" all I mean is that they aren't more careful with it. Rather than pay homage, or smartly handle culturally important things they just kind of went ramshackle through TFA and the OT. That's all I mean. Maybe they didn't intend to have those political overtones, that's fair, but I'd also hope they would pay more attention as well.
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