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re: How would Apollo Creed have done against Clubber Lang?
Posted on 9/25/19 at 12:53 am to Vols&Shaft83
Posted on 9/25/19 at 12:53 am to Vols&Shaft83
There wasn't a time in their careers where Lewis wasn't the superior fighter. Lewis doesn't get the credit he deserves and earned.
When they sparred in 84, Lennox won. Tyson ducked him in 96. Got beaten badly when they finally fought.
When they sparred in 84, Lennox won. Tyson ducked him in 96. Got beaten badly when they finally fought.
This post was edited on 9/25/19 at 1:00 am
0
Posted on 9/25/19 at 1:15 am to upgrade
quote:
how would Apollo Creed have done against Clubber Lan
In my opinion Apollo is the best boxer in that franchise.
His 1 loss to Rocky was due to age, & his loss to Drago was also bc of age AND bc he gave up 4 inches inches and 50 pounds to him
Posted on 9/25/19 at 4:06 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
BTW, most boxing historians and experts who live and breathe this sport rank Tyson outside the Top 10 of greatest Heavyweights.
Bert Sugar ranks them:
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes
11. Holyfield
14. Tyson
I actually agree with this list, it's hard to rank Tyson in the Top 10 for me too, for 2 reasons
1. His fall from his peak was so steep. 80s Tyson was a completely different fighter than 90s Tyson, you can examine the fights from both eras and there is a clear difference in head movement, stance, speed and awareness. He still had power, but against legit heavyweights, power alone won't get the job done.
2. He never faced a real challenger in his prime, one could argue that he was facing real contenders and he was just that much better than everyone else, but I would disagree. It's impossible to quantify how great he actually was without a legit nemesis to compare him to.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:07 am to SHOtime Tiger
quote:
His 1 loss to Rocky was due to age, & his loss to Drago was also bc of age AND bc he gave up 4 inches inches and 50 pounds to him
Carl Weathers was only 30 or so when Rocky II was released and Sylvester Stallone is two years older.
I think Apollo was too soft to beat Clubber.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 9:43 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
The problem with that style is it requires unreal athleticism and conditioning to pull off, you have to constantly work throughout the round. If you're out of shape, it's a disaster.
Yeah, it’s very exhausting, and you gotta be cat-like quick. He was never going to be a great old fighter, but circumstances hastened his decline.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 9:47 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
think Tyson matches up better with Ali than Foreman.
Yeah, prime foreman would have been a problematic matchup for Tyson.
And Tyson at any age struggles with Lennox Lewis.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 10:18 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
BTW, most boxing historians and experts who live and breathe this sport rank Tyson outside the Top 10 of greatest Heavyweights.
I like Tyson a lot, but I get this.
On the question of Ali and Foreman, Ali would have given Tyson a problem with his movement and defense. Ali could take Tyson's punches too, and Tyson wouldn't outbox him. Foreman was probably just too big and strong for Tyson.
I'd have preferred to see Tyson be in his prime for Holyfield and Lewis. Prime Tyson vs Holyfield would have been an epic war. Lewis might have always frustrated Tyson with length and jab, but Tyson would have made it a good fight and Lewis would be in danger.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 12:07 pm to Rep520
quote:
I like Tyson a lot, but I get this.
I don't. Tyson would have annihilated Joe Frazier or Joe Louis.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 12:15 pm to Rep520
quote:
I'd have preferred to see Tyson be in his prime for Holyfield and Lewis. Prime Tyson vs Holyfield would have been an epic war. Lewis might have always frustrated Tyson with length and jab, but Tyson would have made it a good fight and Lewis would be in danger.
I do agree with this. I think prime Tyson beats Holyfield. Probably loses to Lewis.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 12:23 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
If Ali could take an 8 round beating by Foreman in his prime (a Foreman who had just knocked down Joe Frazier about 100 times in 2 rounds) he could take Tyson's power.
Tyson would be dead on his legs after 5 rounds. He never had any stamina and was always about knocking you out early.
Lewis just outjabbed Tyson and kept him a million miles away.
Ali would jab, jab, jab...and if Tyson got close to him, he'd just push him off like Douglas did.
Tyson was ALL about fear...and if he couldn't beat you before the fight, he was in for a long night.
Ali didn't fear anyone.
Tyson is the youngest Heavyweight champ ever but his rise to top had a lot to do with a seemingly dormant Heavyweight division.
All fighters throughout history build their resumes with tomato cans but Tyson had an old Larry Holmes, Michael Spinx who started out as a Middleweight and a fat Tony Tucker.
They had to move Holyfield up from Cruiserweight to face Tyson to have a Heavyweight division and before the fight Tyson goes to prison.
When he comes out Holyfield dominates him and Lewis dominates him
The Ali question depends on which Ali we are talking about. Prime Ali (60s version) probably outpoints Tyson. Tyson beats 70s version of Ali. Tyson was superior as a fighter to Joe Frazier in virtually every respect.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 12:23 pm to Scoob
quote:
Larry was taller, more reach, was a better technical boxer,
No he wasn't.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 12:25 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Was he a shell, or was he finally facing quality fighters?
He was a shell. He fired Rooney after the Spinks fight. Was never trained properly without him.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 12:27 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
George Foregman by all human measures was a far more shell of his former 70's self - Tyson was only 5 years removed from his dominance and he couldn't knock anyone out because he started facing quality fighters for once in Holyfield and Lewis.
All of this is wrong.
quote:
I know Atlas has a beef with Tyson from an incident when he trained him but Atlas always said Tyson was a mirage.
Atlas hates Tyson. You should stopped before the comma.
quote:
To say Ali would have a problem with Tyson is absurd.
70s version absolutely would have had a problem. Tyson was a faster, harder-hitting Frazier. Better technically, too.
Posted on 9/27/19 at 5:03 pm to bigman334
Tyson couldn’t handle good offensive jabs
Posted on 9/28/19 at 5:32 pm to Globetrotter747
Fun fact
Apollo Creed (Carl Weathers) was from New Orleans. He was a star athlete at St Aug and went on to play college football at San Diego State.
Apollo Creed (Carl Weathers) was from New Orleans. He was a star athlete at St Aug and went on to play college football at San Diego State.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 5:35 pm to Scoob
quote:
he got full of himself and thought he could actually go for real. He talked the guy into going a couple rounds, and took a body blow that, if I remember right, broke his arm or ribs.
It was Roberto Duran. Sly thought he could actually box and for some ungodly reason he decided to spar with Duran. It didn't turn out well for Sly.
Posted on 9/29/19 at 9:25 pm to MidnightVibe
Frazier? Please. Tyson-frazier would be a great fight.
Prime George destroys Tyson. Mike's style was all wrong for fighting George. Tyson never got hit that hard. Holyfield said the hardest hit he took was from old george. He couldn't knock him out, either.
Watch George's fights. He destroyed people. I'm not so sure Ali wins if that ref didn't allow him to keep grabbin Foreman 's head. Ref in the Thrilla stopped it and suddenly it was a different fight.
Cassius clay would knock out Tyson. He could take a shot better than anyone and would have dissected Tyson's style.
Prime George destroys Tyson. Mike's style was all wrong for fighting George. Tyson never got hit that hard. Holyfield said the hardest hit he took was from old george. He couldn't knock him out, either.
Watch George's fights. He destroyed people. I'm not so sure Ali wins if that ref didn't allow him to keep grabbin Foreman 's head. Ref in the Thrilla stopped it and suddenly it was a different fight.
Cassius clay would knock out Tyson. He could take a shot better than anyone and would have dissected Tyson's style.
This post was edited on 9/29/19 at 11:45 pm
Posted on 9/29/19 at 11:45 pm to upgrade
quote:
Ali beat a prime Foreman irl. They should have rematched.
From what we can tell Ali wanted no part of a rematch with Foreman. If George hadn't gassed himself out punching he probably would have won the first fight
Posted on 9/29/19 at 11:47 pm to molsusports
Watch the grabbing. Ali kep grabbing his head an pulling it down. Foreman was swinging blind.
Dundee loosened the ropes up before the fight and got away with it.
Next fight was Ron Lyles. He went to center of the ring every time Ali pulled that rope a dope crap
Dundee loosened the ropes up before the fight and got away with it.
Next fight was Ron Lyles. He went to center of the ring every time Ali pulled that rope a dope crap
Posted on 9/30/19 at 4:22 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Prime Larry Holmes beats Tyson, too. Holmes had a great jab. Had the power and reach to keep Tyson at bay. Larry Holmes is pretty underrated in the boxing world.
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