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Muthsera
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2017
5883 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

Poor Billy Costa. That was tuff.


I understand why they changed it to Billy Costa in the adaptation (it was a random kid in the book) but they robbed the whole sequence of a ton of emotion.

When Lyra finds the boy in the novel, he's holding onto a dead fish, pretending it's his daemon. It takes a minute for Lyra and Pan to realize he doesn't have one. After he dies, Lyra tries to find the fish to bury with him and goes ape shite on a Gyptian that had taken it and laughed it off (fed it to his sled dogs, I think). They have really cut back on Lyra's physical and emotional outbursts in the series and made her seem much more reserved and less child-like.

Loved the scene between Seraphina and Coram.
This post was edited on 12/3 at 10:55 am


iwyLSUiwy
Southern Fan
I'm your huckleberry
Member since Apr 2008
26289 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

I understand why they changed it to Billy Costa in the adaptation (it was a random kid in the book) but they robbed the whole sequence of a ton of emotion.



I was a little surprised they didnt have him holding a dead fish or some other animal. I actually had my wife come in and watch that scene before it happened (she doesnt watch the show) bc while I was reading the book I would tell her about it and that was one of the more tragic moments.

But I think it being Billy, not a random kid, and having Ma Costa have to say goodbye to him made up for the emotional aspect of the sequence overall. But you're right, it took away from Lyra's feelings quite a bit.

quote:

Loved the scene between Seraphina and Coram.



Lord Commander Mormont is a great actor. First thing I thought when they showed them in ep1 was that Salladhor Saan and the Lord Commander are the gyptian leaders


McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
39402 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
I haven’t watched the most recent episode, but I’m enjoying the series. I’m hoping the plot moves forward a good bit with this most recent episode. I’ll watch tonight.


Muthsera
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2017
5883 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

I’m hoping the plot moves forward a good bit with this most recent episode.


I understand if you have some mild frustration as literally half the season (4 of 8 episodes) was dedicated to character introductions and worldbuilding, with a lot of exposition done on the fly.

If the full season encompasses the entirety of the first novel, episodes 6 and 8 will be jam-packed with action.


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rebelrouser
Furman Fan
Columbia, SC
Member since Feb 2013
5482 posts
 Online 

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

I didn't like the casting of Lin-Manuel Miranda when announced, and I dont like it


Agree. He is the only bad casting choice so far. The others have been great.


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McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
39402 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
Okay, I watched last night and I was good until the end. Where is she now and why did they knock Lyra out? Are these people from the magisterium?


Muthsera
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2017
5883 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

Where is she now and why did they knock Lyra out? Are these people from the magisterium?


She was captured and taken to Bolvangar by the Magisterium/Oblation Board. She's at the facility with all the captured Gyptian children.


TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7869 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

You want to believe your own beliefs? Have at it. But to try and influence young teens without stating as such? Snake-in-the-grass garbage human being.


I bet you have no issue if the writer supports your views.


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TheCaterpillar
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2004
76774 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
Have we discussed how bad Lin Manuel Miranda is? Excellent show otherwise but this dude overacts like he’s still on Broadway. His fight scene was laughable as well.



scrooster
South Carolina Fan
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
34647 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

She was captured and taken to Bolvangar by the Magisterium/Oblation Board. She's at the facility with all the captured Gyptian children.

One thing I missed ... where did she hide her Golden Compass?


scrooster
South Carolina Fan
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
34647 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

Lord Commander Mormont is a great actor.

Campbell from Braveheart says hi. It was his breakout role.

My favorite lines.

No one has ever stopped a calvary charge of heavy horses.

We will.

How?

:::::::::long pause::::::: We'll make spears. Long ones.

Some spears are longer than others.

I see your mother's been telling stories about me again boy.

Everyone laughs.

I also liked, when they pulled the arrow out of him.

"That'll wake you up in the mornin'."

Image: http://www.seemsgoodmagic.com/sites/default/files/Campbell%20Veteran%20Warrior.jpg



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Muthsera
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2017
5883 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

Have we discussed how bad Lin Manuel Miranda is? Excellent show otherwise but this dude overacts like he’s still on Broadway. His fight scene was laughable as well.


I speculated earlier in the thread that his character was rewritten to provide some levity to an otherwise grim plot. I'm not sure how this is being marketed on the BBC, like maybe they thought younger viewers would be drawn in more if Lyra's group seemed more like a whacky cast of chatacters than a funeral march to a concentration camp.

Not only does he seem really out of place, but he doesn't have the gravitas to pull off the events of the "Alamo Gulch" chapter at the end of The Subtle Knife.


Muthsera
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2017
5883 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:


One thing I missed ... where did she hide her Golden Compass?


As I recall from the novel, she puts it in a leather pouch that she wears around her neck all the time, possibly after Mrs Coulter's daemon almost steals it.

It either got left behind at the Gyptian camp or is being stored with her other belongings at the facility. Billy was sent back out to the village with his old clothes, so they don't dispose of them.


McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
39402 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

I'm not sure how this is being marketed on the BBC, like maybe they thought younger viewers would be drawn in more if Lyra's group seemed more like a whacky cast of chatacters than a funeral march to a concentration camp.


I’m enjoying the show, but I’m watching because I read the book like 15 years ago or something like that. I’ve tried to get my gf to watch, some other friends and my parents and they all couldn’t get through an episode.

The tone definitely isn’t registering with people I know that are 25-30 years old that aren’t familiar with the source material.


Muthsera
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2017
5883 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:



I’m enjoying the show, but I’m watching because I read the book like 15 years ago or something like that. I’ve tried to get my gf to watch, some other friends and my parents and they all couldn’t get through an episode.

The tone definitely isn’t registering with people I know that are 25-30 years old that aren’t familiar with the source material.


It's very difficult material to adapt due to both (1) budget constraints - Iorek, daemons, not even touching on the stuff we'll see later and (2) it is an adolescent narrative about very adult material, which requires either dumbing down the plot or including material that is less appealing to an adult audience just to form a coherent identity for the show.

The adolescent reader is probably hooked by characters having talking animal sidekicks and going on adventures.

The adult reader is probably hooked by parallels to current events, the philosophical and theological ideas that are introduced, and the emotional conclusion to the two main story arcs (that's what got me anyway, I first read it in my early 20s about 10 years ago).

Either of those ideas alone makes a decent show, but the two don't necessarily mesh well.

I'm beginning to think it was a mistake to introduce the Will Parry storyline in Season 1, especially so early. Too much time and dramatic tension has been pulled from Lyra and the Gyptians.


McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
39402 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
I’m really enjoying your posts in this thread. Please continue to give your opinion on things because I think you spelled it out perfectly.


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scrooster
South Carolina Fan
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
34647 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
Well .... tonight's episode sure took an interesting turn.

The Daemon Cages
This post was edited on 12/9 at 10:18 pm


Muthsera
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2017
5883 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

Well .... tonight's episode sure took an interesting turn


Easily the best episode of the season.

Ruth Wilson nailed Mrs Coulter so fricking perfectly. The scene between her and Lyra after she stopped the incision process was absolutely perfect. There's one line that sums up everything I love about her as a villain, when Lyra tells her Billy Costa had died, where she puts on this concerned face and says

"Well of course I'll find everyone responsible and make sure they're punished" or something like that and Lyra screams back "THAT'S YOU!"

And we see just how effortless it is for Mrs Coulter to lie and politic. She has spent so much time around beurocrats, aristocrats, and church officials - lying, manipulating - that she has completely forgotten what it's like to have someone call you out on your shite. And we see with the Spy Fly and upcoming on Svalbard just how much like her mother Lyra can be.

My only quibbles were small - didn't like the scene of Roger trying to motivate the children with no daemon, didn't like the tone of the conversation between Lee Scoresby and Serafina Pekkala, and biggest of all, I didn't like the awkward jump from Bolvangar to Svalbard. I remember that being a quick jump in the novel and this was an opportunity for the adaptation to smooth that out a little. Would have loved a one night respite with the Gyptians so we could get one more scene with Coram.
This post was edited on 12/10 at 7:41 am


scrooster
South Carolina Fan
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
34647 posts

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
The scene I found particularly interesting and telling was when Lyra escaped from Ms Coulter, ran outside the room and began bashing the keypad to lock the door. Then the two of them were each on opposite sides of the door screaming in anger at the same time .... like mother like daughter. Both of them just letting it all hang out.

Loved the witch Sarafina getting involved too ... she's lethal as frick. Not bad to look at either.


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Hester Carries
USA Fan
Member since Sep 2012
15802 posts
 Online 

re: HIS DARK MATERIALS Season Long Thread - S1 Ep8: "Betrayal" Season Finale
quote:

didn't like the tone of the conversation between Lee Scoresby and Serafina Pekkala


why not?


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