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Message
re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)
Posted on 9/19/12 at 9:41 am to jrodLSUke
Posted on 9/19/12 at 9:41 am to jrodLSUke
Here are my questions for Crackpot Club:
Swords! I mean, swords?
1. Does anyone think the Other's sword is made of obsidian? Or is it ice?
2. Does anyone else think the Lightbringer will be made of obsidian?
Swords! I mean, swords?
1. Does anyone think the Other's sword is made of obsidian? Or is it ice?
2. Does anyone else think the Lightbringer will be made of obsidian?
quote:
No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.
2
Posted on 9/19/12 at 9:42 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Prologue: One of the questions I always have after reading this (fricking awesome opening BTW) is do the wights and Others bring the Winter or does the Winter bring the Others and the wights?
I would compare the Others with a blizzard. The Winter is already there but the Others are a harsher manifestation.
My big question about the Others pertains to their armor and weapons. They are described in detail during the prologue as
quote:
seem[ing] to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the grey-green of the trees.[Page 8-9]
And further on Page 9 they describe the Others weapon as
quote:
a longsword like none Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed to almost vanish when seen edge-on....
So my question is where do they get outfitted? We know that they don't magically receive them when they are transformed because Ser Waymar Royce is described as still wearing his tattered cloak and moleskin gloves when he turns. Plus he strangles Will instead of using his sword to kill him. So, is there an Other stronghold an "8 or possibly 9 day" ride from the Wall?
Posted on 9/19/12 at 9:43 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
1. Does anyone think the Other's sword is made of obsidian? Or is it ice?
I don't think it is Obsidian. Why would the Others use one of their only weaknesses as a weapon?
Posted on 9/19/12 at 9:47 am to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Jon is the only one in the party who new Ghost was there. Not even Bran could sense him. So based off of this I came to two conclusions. Jon and Bran have the most power as far as Wargs go. All the children are specifically linked to their direwolves from the start. Each one was meant for a specific child, not just the albino Ghost.
That is something I hadn't thought of. I had a different theory based on the Direwolf encounter and it is connected to R+L=J. It is twofold so here we go:
1. The Stag that killed the Direwolf mother is not only a prophecy regarding the death of Eddard but is a hidden reference to R+L=J. There are 6 pups, the 5 normal ones and Ghost, the albino.
The 5 normal pups obviously reference the 5 children of Eddard while Ghost is a reference to Lyanna's child - Jon. Now, I don't have the book directly in front of me at the moment so I can't give everyone the exact quote but after Ghost is found he wonders to himself how Ghost would be the only one who has opened his eyes (meaning he was born first). It is supposed that the 5 normal pups were born AFTER the mother direwolf had already been dead but if Ghost was born first it is very possible that he was born while the mother was still alive and that his birth is what sped along the mother's (Lyanna's) death.
2. The antler in the throat of the direwolf is a reference to Robert's war being what ultimately killed Lyanna. If R+L=J is true, and I think all of the evidence points to that, then we can use the "bloody bed" references to infer that Lyanna died during Jon's birth. Now, during the Tower of Joy flashbacks there is never any reference to a Maester being present. It is always just Lyanna, Howland, Eddard, a couple members of the Kingsguard, and one other person that I am blanking on at the moment.
The question becomes, if Robert had never rebelled there would have been no reason to hide Lyanna in the Tower of Joy. She could've been kept at the Red Keep where she would've been surrounded by the best Maesters and would've received the necessary medical care to keep her alive during Jon's birth.
This post was edited on 9/19/12 at 10:06 am
Posted on 9/19/12 at 10:27 am to MFn GIMP
quote:
Ghost is found he wonders to himself how Ghost would be the only one who has opened his eyes (meaning he was born first). It is supposed that the 5 normal pups were born AFTER the mother direwolf had already been dead but if Ghost was born first it is very possible that he was born while the mother was still alive and that his birth is what sped along the mother's (Lyanna's) death.
Liking this.
quote:
2. The antler in the throat of the direwolf is a reference to Robert's war being what ultimately killed Lyanna. If R+L=J is true, and I think all of the evidence points to that, then we can use the "bloody bed" references to infer that Lyanna died during Jon's birth.
Excellent point about hiding her away and not having a maester present. The stag killed the direwolf mother. This is already starting off great.
Posted on 9/19/12 at 11:12 am to MFn GIMP
quote:
The question becomes, if Robert had never rebelled there would have been no reason to hide Lyanna in the Tower of Joy. She could've been kept at the Red Keep where she would've been surrounded by the best Maesters and would've received the necessary medical care to keep her alive during Jon's birth.
Lyanna was being kept away from Mad King Aerys, as much as from soon-to-be King Bob. Remember, Aerys was keeping Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon in the Red Keep because he did not trust Rhaegar.
Also, the rebellion started well after Lyanna and Rhaegar disappeared. Rickard and Brandon Starked were killed when they went to look for Rhaegar at KL, and he had already left with Lyanna.
And the rebellion didn't officially begin unitil Mad King Aerys called for the heads of Ned and Jon Arryn.
Posted on 9/19/12 at 11:28 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
Lyanna was being kept away from Mad King Aerys, as much as from soon-to-be King Bob. Remember, Aerys was keeping Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon in the Red Keep because he did not trust Rhaegar.
Also, the rebellion started well after Lyanna and Rhaegar disappeared. Rickard and Brandon Starked were killed when they went to look for Rhaegar at KL, and he had already left with Lyanna.
And the rebellion didn't officially begin unitil Mad King Aerys called for the heads of Ned and Jon Arryn
I didn't think about Rhaegar keeping Lyanna away from Aerys, that's a good point and it kills the second part of my theory.
Posted on 9/19/12 at 11:42 am to MFn GIMP
A quick thought about the antler and the Direwolf-
another possibility is a foreshadowing of Baratheon's actions (or in actions re: the Lannister power play in KL) leading to the near annihilation of the Stark line altogether.
This was my first thought on the re-read.
ETA: Not to say I don't agree completely with the other interps above
A thought on Ghost:
The pup born of the same litter, but different completely than the others. Shares their blood, but not as closely as they do with each other (the red coloring of the others: Tully blood, of which Jon has none)
Ghost is white coloring...white fur...white hair...Targaryen hair? White-blond, anyway...
and the opened-eyes...an allusion to seeing...and truth. Truth of his parentage, of his destiny?
another possibility is a foreshadowing of Baratheon's actions (or in actions re: the Lannister power play in KL) leading to the near annihilation of the Stark line altogether.
This was my first thought on the re-read.
ETA: Not to say I don't agree completely with the other interps above
A thought on Ghost:
The pup born of the same litter, but different completely than the others. Shares their blood, but not as closely as they do with each other (the red coloring of the others: Tully blood, of which Jon has none)
Ghost is white coloring...white fur...white hair...Targaryen hair? White-blond, anyway...
and the opened-eyes...an allusion to seeing...and truth. Truth of his parentage, of his destiny?
This post was edited on 9/19/12 at 11:53 am
Posted on 9/19/12 at 1:14 pm to 19
There was something else I found odd that I didn't catch the first time I read it. In Daenerys's POV, on Page 32, she says that Illyrio's slaves were a gift from the Dothraki:
I don't think there is anything major about that statement it just seems, to me, odd because there is no other reference to the Dothraki giving gifts to other people AND it seems very against their nature to do such a thing.
quote:
There came a soft knock on her door. "Come" Dany said, turning away from the window. Illyrio's servants entered, bowed, and set about their business. They were slaves, a gift from one of the Magister's many Dothraki friends.
I don't think there is anything major about that statement it just seems, to me, odd because there is no other reference to the Dothraki giving gifts to other people AND it seems very against their nature to do such a thing.
Posted on 9/19/12 at 1:25 pm to MFn GIMP
I assumed the slaves were part of the deal Drogo made for his bride. Good point, though.
Just caught the question about the Others' armor and weapons - The way the were described as changing colors (the trees, etc) gave me the impression that they were glass, reflecting everything around them...I suppose ice could reflect too, but smooth obsidian would be a much more reflective surface due to it's color...
Just caught the question about the Others' armor and weapons - The way the were described as changing colors (the trees, etc) gave me the impression that they were glass, reflecting everything around them...I suppose ice could reflect too, but smooth obsidian would be a much more reflective surface due to it's color...
Posted on 9/19/12 at 5:14 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
Lyanna was being kept away from Mad King Aerys, as much as from soon-to-be King Bob
Very true. remember that Rhaegar swore to Jaime that changes would be made once he came back from the war. I don't think Aerys was going to die of natural causes anyway, Rhaegar was already scheming to remove his father from the throne for the good of the realm and his new bride. We all know that there is only one way a king loses his throne in westeros.
This post was edited on 9/19/12 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 9/19/12 at 5:17 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
1. Does anyone think the Other's sword is made of obsidian? Or is it ice?
No its Ice and in this world ice's natural enemy as far as blades go would be obsidian or maybe valyrian steel aka dragons steel.
quote:
No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.
I had one thought and one thought only while reading this passage..... The other's blade sounds suspiciously like Dawn, The Sword of The Morning......
I don't have a clue how that fits in but the resemblance is uncanny.
Posted on 9/19/12 at 5:19 pm to CottonWasKing
Those were Valyrian Steel blades. Like you said Ice's natural enemy
Posted on 9/19/12 at 5:23 pm to DMagic
quote:
Those were Valyrian Steel blades.
No I don't think so. Will would've seen Valyrian steel before. Remember Mormont carried Longclaw for some time.
The Other's blade was something different. "No human steel went into forging that blade". No, this was something Will had never seen before and he knew that is was something that no other living man had ever seen, it was something unnatural.
This post was edited on 9/19/12 at 5:24 pm
Posted on 9/19/12 at 5:31 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
. The other's blade sounds suspiciously like Dawn, The Sword of The Morning.....
I actually had the same thought.
No real way to tie them together.
Other than Ice and ice.
Posted on 9/19/12 at 5:37 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
No real way to tie them together.
We know that Dawn was forged from the metals left behind by a comet and that is more than likely the strongest sword in the ASOIAF world.
Could The Others and Dawn come from the same place?
Posted on 9/19/12 at 6:02 pm to CottonWasKing
It's like the History Channel.
When in doubt -->
Posted on 9/19/12 at 6:05 pm to jrodLSUke
Posted on 9/19/12 at 6:08 pm to MFn GIMP
quote:
So my question is where do they get outfitted? We know that they don't magically receive them when they are transformed because Ser Waymar Royce is described as still wearing his tattered cloak and moleskin gloves when he turns. Plus he strangles Will instead of using his sword to kill him. So, is there an Other stronghold an "8 or possibly 9 day" ride from the Wall?
Royce is just a wight though, not an other, he wouldn't be using an Other blade anyway.
Posted on 9/19/12 at 6:12 pm to auyushu
quote:
Royce is just a wight though, not an other, he wouldn't be using an Other blade anyway.
This is correct. Humans can never be Others. The Others are a completely seperate species and when they kill something that thing then becomes a wight (basically a zombie).
Wights can be killed by fire, while The Others don't like fire it will not kill them only hold them back for a time. The only thing known for a fact to have the power kill an Other is obsidian, dragon steel is said to have the same power but no one really knows what that is. Most assume that they are referring to Valyrian Steel.
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