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re: Dumbledore vs Gandalf the White
Posted on 5/3/11 at 5:58 pm to Ace Ventura
Posted on 5/3/11 at 5:58 pm to Ace Ventura
quote:
I didn't say Dumbledore wouldn't be tempted by the ring, but all he would have to do is port Frodo to Mount Doom and have him drop it in. Dumbledore would never have to touch it.
Good point.
1
Posted on 5/3/11 at 7:12 pm to OMLandshark
#1 - This is the kind of thread Dan should have started, and I always tried to push him that way. Danny Glover vs. William H. Macy is not interesting. Neither is a demi-god or a wizard sadly.
And most importantly:
#2 - This thread is the reason the internet was created.
I have enjoyed the very thorough breakdown of this ultimate battle.
And most importantly:
#2 - This thread is the reason the internet was created.
I have enjoyed the very thorough breakdown of this ultimate battle.
This post was edited on 5/3/11 at 7:13 pm
Posted on 5/3/11 at 7:29 pm to Ace Ventura
quote:
all he would have to do is port Frodo to Mount Doom and have him drop it in.
still dont understand why gandolf couldnt ride his big fricking eagle over Mount Doom and tossed that shite in the fire
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:12 pm to CE Tiger
quote:It's called "know your limits" and Gandalf knew his. The ring was designed to corrupt whomever had it in his/her possession. Remember Galadriel and how she turned scary for that minute in the movie when Frodo offered her the ring? It was a view of how terrible she would have become had she possessed this ring of power. Why did Saruman want the ring? He was being corrupted at a distance by his lust for the ring; if he'd gotten 'hold of it, he would have become Sauron re-born. Gandalf wouldn't touch it because he knew what it would do to him if he had it; he had too many powers and too much integrity to risk such a close encounter. Hobbits were pretty much unfazed by life outside the Shire and had pretty limited horizons - that was their strength when dealing with the Ring - didn't see the fullest potential and were content with relatively minor things - hard to totally tempt or corrupt.
still dont understand why gandolf couldnt ride his big fricking eagle over Mount Doom and tossed that shite in the fire
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:44 pm to CE Tiger
quote:
still dont understand why gandolf couldnt ride his big fricking eagle over Mount Doom and tossed that shite in the fire
they eye would have seen him and the nazgull (sp?) would have all flown up to take him down
besides, it wouldn't have made more than a short story
Posted on 5/4/11 at 9:04 am to molsusports
bump
Posted on 5/4/11 at 9:16 am to Freauxzen
They cannot be looked out the same. In LOTR Gandalf is a 'demi-god' who cannot die, and only gets reborn. He fights some boss mf'ers and wins, but dies. We've seen him have some power, but then again..the fact he cannot die lets him go balls deep.
Dumbledore on the other hand is the strongest thing since sliced bread. Haven't finished the collection yet, but so far there haven't been any 'demi-gods' running around.
So to compare them you would either have to make Gandalf killable or Dumbledore unkillable. Based purely on magic shown, then Dumbledore looks to have more knowledge. However, I'm going with a tie. They'd team up to fight evil.
Dumbledore on the other hand is the strongest thing since sliced bread. Haven't finished the collection yet, but so far there haven't been any 'demi-gods' running around.
So to compare them you would either have to make Gandalf killable or Dumbledore unkillable. Based purely on magic shown, then Dumbledore looks to have more knowledge. However, I'm going with a tie. They'd team up to fight evil.
Posted on 5/4/11 at 9:19 am to CajunFootball
quote:that's not how it works. if you have to limit one of them to make it a fair fight then you already know the answer.
So to compare them you would either have to make Gandalf killable or Dumbledore unkillable.
Posted on 5/4/11 at 9:20 am to manwich
Wow this thread is so nerdy it is ridiculous. Not that theres anything wrong that.
Posted on 5/4/11 at 9:20 am to manwich
Then you are comparing apples and oranges.
Posted on 5/4/11 at 9:25 am to michaelklump
Seriously, what did Gandalf do in the movies that was so awesome as far as magic anyway. Yes, I know he "came back to life", but he was using conventional fighting the whole time against the Orcs and Goblins.
Dumbledore could just flick his wand and frick up some shite.
Dumbledore could just flick his wand and frick up some shite.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 11:35 am to alajones
Okay I watched Fellowship of the Ring twice last night for the first time in a couple years. I must say that I was extremely disappointed in Gandalf. He literally didn't use magic at all. It is almost unbelievable how little a wizard of his stature actually used magic in the movie. Serious plot hole IMO.
Most notably when Frodo was stabbed by the cave troll. Gandalf was literally sword fighting in the background..wtf?? Dumbledore would have never let that happen. Also, when Saruman was creating an avalanche to try and stop the group. Gandalf again used no magic at all.
Last but not least, Gandalf was so fricking weak actually fighting Saruman. It was almost laughable.
I am curious to know why there was a lack of magic. I haven't read the books in several years, so please forgive me if I am forgetting something.
Most notably when Frodo was stabbed by the cave troll. Gandalf was literally sword fighting in the background..wtf?? Dumbledore would have never let that happen. Also, when Saruman was creating an avalanche to try and stop the group. Gandalf again used no magic at all.
Last but not least, Gandalf was so fricking weak actually fighting Saruman. It was almost laughable.
I am curious to know why there was a lack of magic. I haven't read the books in several years, so please forgive me if I am forgetting something.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 11:49 am to CajunFootball
quote:
So to compare them you would either have to make Gandalf killable or Dumbledore unkillable. Based purely on magic shown, then Dumbledore looks to have more knowledge. However, I'm going with a tie. They'd team up to fight evil.
Huh? That's faulty logic. This is just like the Superman/Hulk Argument.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 11:53 am to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Okay I watched Fellowship of the Ring twice last night for the first time in a couple years. I must say that I was extremely disappointed in Gandalf. He literally didn't use magic at all. It is almost unbelievable how little a wizard of his stature actually used magic in the movie. Serious plot hole IMO.
Not a plothole. Magic is SO dangerous in the world of LOTR that it is very problematic to use. Look at the Balrog.
Magic is a very unwieldy force, there really is no comparison.
quote:
Most notably when Frodo was stabbed by the cave troll. Gandalf was literally sword fighting in the background..wtf?? Dumbledore would have never let that happen. Also, when Saruman was creating an avalanche to try and stop the group. Gandalf again used no magic at all.
He is supposed to limit his role in the paths of men as much as possible. It is his duty to oversee more than anything else.
quote:
Last but not least, Gandalf was so fricking weak actually fighting Saruman. It was almost laughable.
Again, they both weren't using magic to its full potential (and if an evil guy is going to hold back, then you know what that means). And Saruman was just that much better.
LINK
quote:
Here we find speaking purses, magical fireworks, shapeshifting, and speaking animals. While this lighthanded use of magic occurs less in the other works, in The Fellowship of the Ring, Tolkien still writes about how Gandalf uses spells to conjure fire, create light, open the doors to Moria, "bless" Sam's pony Bill with "words of guard and guiding", hold the door in the Chamber of Mazarbul (and how the Balrog tries to open the door with its own counterspell) and break the Bridge of Khazad-dûm. Gandalf also says to Frodo that "it has not been hard for me to read your mind and memory", and both Aragorn and Glorfindel are able to tell the severity of Frodo's injury and to a certain degree heal it by mere touch. In The Two Towers, Gandalf first uses magic to disarm Aragorn and Gimli and destroy an arrow Legolas fired at him and later in the book, he uses his voice to prevent Saruman from retreating to Orthanc, break Saruman's staff, and dismiss him after doing so. Gandalf also tells Gimli that Saruman could "look like me in your eyes, if it suited his purpose with you"; in other words, Saruman can create illusions with his magic. In The Return of the King, Gandalf uses "a shaft of white light" to drive off the Nazgûl assaulting him. The Witch-king of Angmar is known as a dark Sorcerer (and hence many failed to destroy him), and Galadriel uses her mirror to show scenes from the past, present, and future. Likewise in the stories of The Silmarillion Lúthien and Beren change shape in order to infiltrate Angband, and Lúthien uses magic to lull Carcharoth, Melkor and everyone in Melkor's castle into a deep slumber. Finrod sings spells to hide his identity from Sauron, Melian uses magic to create a barrier around her land of Doriath which is for a time seemingly impenetrable to all, and Sauron uses wizardry to create a phantom of Eilinel to deceive Gorlim and then kills him. In The Hobbit, Beorn is described as "a skin-changer. He changes his skin: sometimes he is a huge black bear, sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard" and Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves put "a great many spells" over the buried pots of gold from the cache of the trolls, though this may merely be superstition.
And the movies with Saruman's blizzard.
This post was edited on 6/3/11 at 11:57 am
Posted on 6/3/11 at 11:59 am to Freauxzen
You don't think its a pothole that a powerful wizard only used magic once in the entire movie? I can understand not using it often, but once?
Posted on 6/3/11 at 12:05 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
You don't think its a pothole that a powerful wizard only used magic once in the entire movie? I can understand not using it often, but once?
Not at all, that's how Tolkien wrote the characters. They are forbidden to use true magic and are hampered by their human form.
And he didn't use it once...
Balrog, Speaking to the Eagles and moth, Returning from the dead, fending off ringwraiths, disabling Aragorn/Gimli/Legolas, etc.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 12:08 pm to Freauxzen
I was talking strictly Fellowship of the Ring.
Also I just realized that the OP is arguing dumbledore vs Gandalf the White. I guess you can't really apply the first movie to this argument.
Also I just realized that the OP is arguing dumbledore vs Gandalf the White. I guess you can't really apply the first movie to this argument.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 12:11 pm to Freauxzen
Also, I don't think he uses magic to open the Doors of Moria.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 12:12 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Also, I don't think he uses magic to open the Doors of Moria.
He does.
The thing about Lord of the Rings is objects have a LOT of power, I mean that is the whole point of the book. Objects can be enchanted to do almost anything. And that's throughout the history of middle earth. But again, that comes with a price.
Posted on 6/3/11 at 12:18 pm to Freauxzen
How does he?
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