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Message
re: Chris Nolan's 9-year run
Posted on 4/11/19 at 10:42 am to Midget Death Squad
Posted on 4/11/19 at 10:42 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
50 years from now people will be talking of Nolan in the same company as Hitchcock and Welles. He is a legendary director.
The Coens have an infinitely better shot at this than Nolan.
He's good, don't get me wrong, and few right now can direct a better robust science fiction film, but he's not even the greatest director right now, much less good enough to be remembered like Hitchcock in 50 years.
This post was edited on 4/11/19 at 10:46 am
2
Posted on 4/11/19 at 10:44 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
Dunkirk was bad
Not bad, but certainly below average. Completely unmemorable regardless of how good the theater experience was.
TDKR stains the 9-year run idea. And Interstellar is overrated around here. Good film. Not 2001 or close to it.
This post was edited on 4/11/19 at 10:47 am
Posted on 4/11/19 at 10:48 am to Freauxzen
Oh, I think Nolan will certainly be remembered 50 years from now. I don't think you can contend with this era without engaging with his catalog. And in a way, the Coens are a previous era. I much more strongly attach them to the 80s/90s independent scene. They are now sort of the elder statesmen of the movement, while the next generation are taking their turn.
Nolan though will likely be outshadowed by someone like Cuaron, who is more of a contemporary. But there's always a place for Nolan's postmodernism, and the trio of Memento, The Prestige, and Inception is a pretty stunning resume.
Nolan though will likely be outshadowed by someone like Cuaron, who is more of a contemporary. But there's always a place for Nolan's postmodernism, and the trio of Memento, The Prestige, and Inception is a pretty stunning resume.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 10:50 am to Freauxzen
quote:
TDKR stains the 9-year run idea
I disagree. I know that you and many on this board don't like it, but the movie was well received by both critics and audiences.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 10:50 am to Baloo
quote:
Oh, I think Nolan will certainly be remembered 50 years from now. I don't think you can contend with this era without engaging with his catalog. And in a way, the Coens are a previous era. I much more strongly attach them to the 80s/90s independent scene. They are now sort of the elder statesmen of the movement, while the next generation are taking their turn.
Nolan though will likely be outshadowed by someone like Cuaron, who is more of a contemporary. But there's always a place for Nolan's postmodernism, and the trio of Memento, The Prestige, and Inception is a pretty stunning resume.
Yeah I meant "remembered like that" not "remembered" I edited. But you are correct. He will certainly be remembered.
And Yes, the trio of Memento, Prestige, Inception are a much better distillation of his catalog right now.
He doesn't make enough great films to be Hitchcock and his small resume lacks the single film power of Kubrick. Nolan is more akin to Spielberg with a less family friendly catalog.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 10:59 am to Jack Ruby
some really hot takes ITT. Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:56 am to Freauxzen
Actually, I think Kubrick is a really good comp for him. They are both visual stylists who can sometimes have problems connecting with humanity. If there's a criticism of Kubrick, it's usually that his movies are cold and antiseptic. You almost feel like he identifies more with HAL than Dave.
They also have no problem working within genre and have tried to rehab the critical reputations of deriding genres (Kubrick with sci fi/horror and Nolan with superheroes). They can both be prickly and at their peak, don't rush their films as they are a bit of a perfectionist. They also love filmmaking quirks like the different time signatures of DUNKIRK or the primary colors of THE SHINING.
Also, I'll admit this is a bit personal attachment. I was a huge Kubrick fan as a young man and have slowly fallen out of love with him. I no longer connect with his technical mastery due to his lack of humanism, and I very much can see a young Nolan fan going through that similar arc as they age. (The odd thing is that I havem't gone through that with Fincher, who I do feel manages to be a humanist despite his rep as a very technical director).
They also have no problem working within genre and have tried to rehab the critical reputations of deriding genres (Kubrick with sci fi/horror and Nolan with superheroes). They can both be prickly and at their peak, don't rush their films as they are a bit of a perfectionist. They also love filmmaking quirks like the different time signatures of DUNKIRK or the primary colors of THE SHINING.
Also, I'll admit this is a bit personal attachment. I was a huge Kubrick fan as a young man and have slowly fallen out of love with him. I no longer connect with his technical mastery due to his lack of humanism, and I very much can see a young Nolan fan going through that similar arc as they age. (The odd thing is that I havem't gone through that with Fincher, who I do feel manages to be a humanist despite his rep as a very technical director).
Posted on 4/11/19 at 2:27 pm to Jack Ruby
Tarantino’s is better
Posted on 4/11/19 at 3:28 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
The Coens have an infinitely better shot at this than Nolan.
He's good, don't get me wrong, and few right now can direct a better robust science fiction film, but he's not even the greatest director right now, much less good enough to be remembered like Hitchcock in 50 years.
The only thing you got somewhat right is that the Coens are good. They are not in the same ballpark as Nolan. They have an inconsistent catalog of films, whereas Nolan has only two that wouldn't qualify as great: TDKR (very good but flawed) and Insomnia (a weak remake of a far superior film). Other than this he has been not only incredibly innovative with his film techniques, but his stories are intelligent, original and compelling. He is and will forever be a subject for study in film classes, and anyone who has studied film in any respect would recognize just how fantastic his work is outside of strictly an entertainment value.
I get Nolan haters though. It's hip to rip on greatness when everyone is singing its praises. Human nature is one to make us react negatively to this, and to stand out we must propose the counter arguments regardless of how wrong they are.
ETA: I love the Coens overall. After rereading my opening sentence I could see this being misinterpreted. They have quite a few misses though, and that keeps them from being on the same level as Nolan. Even when they knocked it out the park there is still a difference in greatness between the two. Baloo really nailed it with his analysis of the Coens and how they redefined the indy genre. They will always be a subject for film studies in history.
This post was edited on 4/11/19 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 4/11/19 at 3:41 pm to Baloo
quote:
Actually, I think Kubrick is a really good comp for him. They are both visual stylists who can sometimes have problems connecting with humanity. If there's a criticism of Kubrick, it's usually that his movies are cold and antiseptic. You almost feel like he identifies more with HAL than Dave.
They also have no problem working within genre and have tried to rehab the critical reputations of deriding genres (Kubrick with sci fi/horror and Nolan with superheroes). They can both be prickly and at their peak, don't rush their films as they are a bit of a perfectionist. They also love filmmaking quirks like the different time signatures of DUNKIRK or the primary colors of THE SHINING.
While true from a stylistic standpoint, Nolan's overall quality, or even his directing, is in Kubrick's stratosphere. The two are vastly different from that regard.
Nolan has more in tune with pop filmmaking like Spielberg, even if we uses a few unique techniques here and there. (And I do mean mass Nolan, Not Memento/Following Nolan who was a different filmmaker).
I also think Kubrick when out of his way more to change other genres. Nolan, regardless of it being Dunkirk vs. The Dark Knight vs. Interstellar, stays in a pretty similar lane whereas 2001, Dr. Strangelove and Barry Lyndon are vastly different films.
quote:
Also, I'll admit this is a bit personal attachment. I was a huge Kubrick fan as a young man and have slowly fallen out of love with him. I no longer connect with his technical mastery due to his lack of humanism, and I very much can see a young Nolan fan going through that similar arc as they age.
I can agree with this, except rather than enjoying Kubrick less, I've appreciated different films more. Where young Freauxzen enjoyed Full Metal Jacket, Spartacus and A Clockwork Orange, older Freauxzen appreciates 2001, Barry Lyndon and The Shining.
Dr. Strangelove is a constant though.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 3:45 pm to Midget Death Squad
quote:
I get Nolan haters though. It's hip to rip on greatness when everyone is singing its praises. Human nature is one to make us react negatively to this, and to stand out we must propose the counter arguments regardless of how wrong they are.
So this really isn't a discussion for you, got it. The only reason to not think Nolan is the greatest living director is to be "hip." Even admitting that he's easily in the Top 5 directors right now, I wouldn't call him the best, and that he won't be a Hitchcock in 50 years, suddenly it's just to be different.
Nolan is a fantastic director, who won't be studied in 50 years, like many other fantastic directors. That's not a "hip" opinion. (And note, Memento very well may be studied as a film, but where we have classes for Kubrick, Hitchcock and Bergman, we won't have classes on Nolan. I don't see it.)
Edit: That is to say, not studied if his catalog retains the same hit + some slight misses that he has had. If we goes on some tear of films that remake genres and what not, that could change. He's still young. I think Inception is his Close Encounters and he still hasn't made his Jurassic Park yet.
This post was edited on 4/11/19 at 5:03 pm
Posted on 4/11/19 at 4:01 pm to Midget Death Squad
quote:
The only thing you got somewhat right is that the Coens are good. They are not in the same ballpark as Nolan. They have an inconsistent catalog of films,
Not only do I disagree with the categorization of the Coens as inconsistent, I would argue the exact opposite: they have probably the strongest and deepest catalog of any living director not named Spielberg. If you asked 100 Coen fans to rank their movies, you'd likely get 100 different answer. They've only made one bad movie, LADYKILLERS, and that is at least a fun, loving remake. Their opening run from BLOOD SIMPLE to FARGO is maybe the best run of films to debut a career. In that span, they won Sundance, the Palme d'Or, and an Oscar, I believe the only filmmakers to ever hit that triple.
They are perhaps the only directors beloved by the mainstream, the independents, and the art school crowd. I can appreciate advocacy for Nolan, but the idea that the Coens are these hit and miss directors who haven't been extraordinarily innovative and influential is just plain wrong. They have also a far more demonstrable ability to cross genres, especially in their ability to bounce between dramas and comedies.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 4:59 pm to Baloo
quote:
In that span, they won Sundance, the Palme d'Or, and an Oscar, I believe the only filmmakers to ever hit that triple.
I did not realize this. Holy smokes.
quote:
They are perhaps the only directors beloved by the mainstream, the independents, and the art school crowd.
Hitchcock....maybe. I guess "Independents" and the fans of such films are a new thing. But Hitchcock would have fans in each bucket as well.
This post was edited on 4/11/19 at 5:02 pm
Posted on 4/11/19 at 5:06 pm to Baloo
quote:
Nolan though will likely be outshadowed by someone like Cuaron, who is more of a contemporary. But there's always a place for Nolan's postmodernism, and the trio of Memento, The Prestige, and Inception is a pretty stunning resume.
I know you don't prefer his films yet, but Villeneuva has an interesting trajectory to keep an eye on. It's early, I get it, but if he knocks Dune out of the park....
Posted on 4/11/19 at 5:14 pm to Midget Death Squad
quote:
I love the Coens overall. After rereading my opening sentence I could see this being misinterpreted. They have quite a few misses though, and that keeps them from being on the same level as Nolan.
Wtf? The Coens are way better than Nolan.
I've never understood where the Nolan cult following came from. His movies have no rewatchability factor and are a chore to get through.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 5:15 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
I've never understood where the Nolan cult following came from. His movies have no rewatchability factor and are a chore to get through.
Because you want to be "hip," that's the argument....
quote:
Wtf? The Coens are way better than Nolan.
In terms of working directors ahead of Nolan:
Coens
Fincher
Tarantino
PT Anderson
Nolan is probably after PTA. And that's not counting Ridley Scott, Spielberg, Scorcese...the old guard still working.
This post was edited on 4/11/19 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 4/11/19 at 5:26 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Because you want to be "hip," that's the argument.
Not liking Nolan is not being "hip". Lots of people don't care for Nolan or his style.
Your posts in this thread come off as extreme fanboi-ism.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 5:27 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
I know you don't prefer his films yet, but Villeneuva has an interesting trajectory to keep an eye on. It's early, I get it, but if he knocks Dune out of the park....
Fincher should be in this discussion. He’s my favorite working director today but that could change if he doesn’t make a movie sometime soon. Hasn’t made one since 2014
Posted on 4/11/19 at 5:31 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
Lots of people don't care for Nolan or his style
There will always be people who don’t care for any particular directors style. But to deny his abilities or to act like his movies have no rewatchability factor is absurd
Posted on 4/11/19 at 5:35 pm to jg8623
quote:
act like his movies have no rewatchability factor is absurd
To you, maybe. That's why they're opinions.
I feel the same way about Tarantino's 3 hour marathon movies.
I just never have an urge to rewatch their movies. That isn't a controversial opinion.
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