re: Apple+ Foundation

I guess not knowing the source makes it different but I would have guessed that of anybody on this entire site, you would be the first to not watch this.

Race swapping, gender swapping, multiple main story lines don't even exist in the book. They could have race and gender swapped but at least stayed true to the story, but nope, they are better writers than Isaac Asimov.

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Despite all their flaws, they still manage, imo, to make a decent variation of what (they say) differed from the source. Eg,

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Eg, everything. Other than the character names, the show is unrecognizable from the books. At least season one was (I didn't watch the last two episodes). I would imagine it just gets further from the source in S2, it was too far off to come back.

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Kaju supporting woke stuff, you gotta love it.

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Well, I do qualify that I don't know the source material, but the reasoning for some of the gender swaps isn't terrible. Apparently, there aren't any women in Issac Asimov's original.

But they got really good writers! Jane Espenson has some legendary work going back to Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica, Torchwood, etc... And I didn't know this until I started listening to the podcast.

Good writing, proven actors... hard to frick things up. Rings of Power had NONE of those.

loving this show after season 1. Have never read the books though and doubt I ever will.

Hari & the Empire characters are larger than life. I don’t think 20 something and 30-year-old average people are supposed to be on the same level.

I thought they were fine.

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How could a TV show have stayed true to the story?

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Seriously? Setting aside the numerous gender and race swaps, you will rarely see me talk about something being woke, that doesn't bother me (although someone like Kaju would bitch to hell and back, and has, on Marvel/Star Wars shows and movies that do this to a waaaaay lesser degree), I'm talking major plot points/themes that completely change it from being Foundation. I'm sorry but the cloned emperors, Dawn, Day, and Dusk is such a major aspect and departure from the source that it makes the show almost unrecognizable.

I know telling this story is hard, but every complaint I have is simply a fact. I'm not stating some wild idea that can be argues that it doesn't really change the story/essence of the show, it just does.

It's basically if they took Frodo and Legolas, gender and race swapped them and make them from Bree, then cut LOTR in half, and made the other half of the story The Chronicles of Narnia. Add in some major action sequences to boot. Would people that don't care about the source, or the author of the books still watch? Defintely. Would it also be fair for someone who considers them some of the greatest sci-fi/fantasy series and author of all time to complain about the changes? Yes.

But like guys like Kuju (turn a blind eye if they like it) and fatkid who get their panties in a wad if a Star Wars character is race/gender swapped or if Marvel makes a female character different, or adds in modern politics always say: Just call it something different. I actually agree with that here. Not hating on the quality of the show, but to me, a big fan, it's a bit of an abomination and I'm not going to watch. Someone like my brother on the other hand, he loves the show and likes to ask me what the differences are. I'm glad he's enjoying it.

I last read the Foundation books about 40 years ago, so the show has been enjoyable enough as I recall different plot points. The main distracting element is all of the fight scenes. I don't recall many fight scenes in the book, but I suppose that is part of trying to make it accessible to an audience raised on video games.

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I'm sorry, but that's just not in any way a valid reason to gender swap

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I agree, it’s on par with claiming there needs to be dwarves or elves “of color”.

That’s just what the producer said.

But Hollywood can’t help themselves.

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So you only bitch about woke (by your standards) shows you know? You've watched Orange is the New Black, The Last of Us, Sense8, Ms. Marvel, Strange World, Velma, etc.? You don't have to know them to bitch. Most of them you for sure haven't watched and still bitch. The Foundation is different because you like it.

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This sure is a jumbled mess you're making. 'Woke' isn't just things I don't like. I grew up on Star Trek and sometimes watching Scooby Doo. 'Strange World' isn't Trek, by any stretch. Nor is Velma. Just grifting garbage by a soulless group of agenda driven vultures who see $$$ in piggybacking their message onto an established IP. Orange, Ms Marvel, Sense8, don't give 2 fricks about either way.

But one thing I've ALWAYS stressed, regardless of the brand, is that the source material should be respected. (see posts above)

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But regardless of significance, you've heard the showrunners say why they did it. But again, you like it, so it doesn't matter if it's one of/if not the most cherished Sci-Fi writers of all time. Just hypocritical on your part. But maybe this somehow falls outside of your woke criteria.

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I like what I've seen so far, yes. If I read the books and see how wildly this show has gone off course, I'll likely change my tone. But the difference I see in Foundation and say RoP is they're not laying The Message on layers thick. There's an actual story there, not just 'wahman good, whiiiite men bad' crap that is preached time and time again in the past 6-8 years.

Also, Foundation has been nominated and won awards. RoP can't say it's won anything. And it's the most expensive TV series of all time.

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Again, I'm not bashing anybody for watching this or even saying it's not a quality show. My wife, who normally couldn't give two shits about a race/gender swap, won't watch any of this because of the changes. it's her favorite novels of all time.

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You married well. I fully understand her POV. I'm the same way with Tolkien.

Haven't seen the latest Dune movie, and the 2nd part is supposed to come out this fall(?). Never read those books either. I've heard they're a bit of a tough read. Even for 'nerds'. I read The Silmarillion, and as much as I am a huge Tolkien fan, it took me a few times to begin to grasp it. It's not for everyone.

I can see fans of the books getting annoyed that so much money and effort has gone into making a visually stunning series but they failed to stick to the source material. That is frustrating.

And I didn't even realize that I was fully caught up now in watchin Foundation. I figured S2 was already in the can, and I could binge watch a few more episodes. Now I gotta wait, just like everyone else.