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rolltide32
Alabama Fan
Fort Payne, AL
Member since Nov 2013
4777 posts

re: WSOP 2019
quote:

Pocket Kingz


GTO maximizes value assuming the opponent is also playing GTO.

As the opponent deviates from GTO playing to exploit the opponents weakness becomes more profitable. The obvious risk is that you open yourself up to be exploited by other players by changing gears to exploit the weaker players at the table

The top level players on the high roller circuit are not as good as some more veteran players at making these adjustments in tournaments like the WSOP ME


rolltide32
Alabama Fan
Fort Payne, AL
Member since Nov 2013
4777 posts

re: WSOP 2019
quote:

Just hope Mike is clean I know he owed Negraneu a good chunk of money and never paid him back


Negreanu was on Mike's podcast for like a 2 hour interview right before the series. They're good now.


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lsufan112001
USA Fan
sportsmans paradise
Member since Oct 2006
9071 posts

re: WSOP 2019
Another raise to 65000. Geez. Someone do it just a lil different


LSUSUPERSTAR
USA Fan
TX
Member since Jan 2005
13243 posts

re: WSOP 2019
I haven't been able to watch this year, did last year's champ play in the ME?


Pocket Kingz
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2013
1448 posts

re: WSOP 2019
quote:

GTO maximizes value assuming the opponent is also playing GTO.

As the opponent deviates from GTO playing to exploit the opponents weakness becomes more profitable. The obvious risk is that you open yourself up to be exploited by other players by changing gears to exploit the weaker players at the table

The top level players on the high roller circuit are not as good as some more veteran players at making these adjustments in tournaments like the WSOP ME




You're actually making the argument that the players who are the most succesful at playing against the best players are bad at adjustments? We will have to agree to disagree.

GTO is most effective (and absolutely necessary) when playing mid and high stakes cash games and mtts. Do some people misapply concepts? Yes. That doesn't translate to what you are saying, not even close.

Someone who learns GTO concepts can always choose not to use them and go more Exploit heavy. Other way around not so much.

And for the record, I dont base much on live High stakes MTT results for a myriad of reasons. Small player pool, equity swaps, etc.... Im actually not a fan of a player having a piece of 6 guys in a 45 player tourny.

YOud really rather have Alex Foxen or Jake Schindler on your left than Matusow? Come on bro.


This post was edited on 7/10 at 8:38 pm


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TheWalrus
LSU Fan
Memphis
Member since Dec 2012
22566 posts

re: WSOP 2019
Very poor play by Seymour there. What are the odds the opponent was slow playing a flush? Very low.


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
365793 posts

re: WSOP 2019
quote:

GTO maximizes value assuming the opponent is also playing GTO.

As the opponent deviates from GTO playing to exploit the opponents weakness becomes more profitable. The obvious risk is that you open yourself up to be exploited by other players by changing gears to exploit the weaker players at the table

wut? GTO is unexploitable (if you can actually play GTO which no human can, esp live). GTO is defensive poker

the problem is you leave a lot of potential EV on the table by removing exploitation from your game


Pocket Kingz
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2013
1448 posts

re: WSOP 2019
quote:

wut? GTO is unexploitable (if you can actually play GTO which no human can, esp live). GTO is defensive poker

the problem is you leave a lot of potential EV on the table by removing exploitation from your game




To be fair we are entering a clusterfrick of semantics. This is the statement that I took umbrage with:

quote:

The top level players on the high roller circuit are not as good as some more veteran players at making these adjustments in tournaments like the WSOP ME


This feels like Hellmuth fanboying 100%. Which is funny since out of that old guard of exploitative players, Negreanu has had the most recent success because he added GTO and modern theory into his game.

Hell, in Negreanu's "masterclass" his coaches basically are disciples of Doug Polk's online system.
This post was edited on 7/10 at 8:55 pm


Pocket Kingz
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2013
1448 posts

re: WSOP 2019
quote:

GTO is unexploitable (if you can actually play GTO which no human can, esp live)


He is correct on this point: GTO assumes everyone is playing GTO in theory. This is obviously a waste at low stakes cash games and alot of mtts.

There was also a fad a few years back where young guys who didnt really grasp the concepts were going crazy with 3-betting and with c-betting. I absolutely did this. Its easy to just think of those type players when imagining the younger school of players.

Anyone who is good enough to play stakes and levels that require GTO, succesfully, is good enough to factor in their opponents tendencies.


Pocket Kingz
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2013
1448 posts

re: WSOP 2019
Holy frick. Just no. Damnit Seymour.


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Byron Bojangles III
Nebraska Fan
Member since Nov 2012
47704 posts

re: WSOP 2019
You either put him on a set or a bluff. He went with his read


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
365793 posts

re: WSOP 2019
when i got back in a few years ago it was hard to turn off live poker brain when playing online. why i switched to omaha

quote:

This feels like Hellmuth fanboying 100%.

tournaments are a terrible way to judge players, generally

there is too much randomness and specific play to the exact situations of tournaments

also i think high stakes cash guys have a better set of results in tournies than the main tourney guys (see: Jason "bad reg" Mercier) do in cash games. i think adjusting to smaller BB stacks is easier than deep stack (and you almost never see deep stack poker in tournies)


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Pocket Kingz
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2013
1448 posts

re: WSOP 2019
quote:

You either put him on a set or a bluff. He went with his read


He was definitely including JJ (which means should include QQ) as we heard him actually say JJ while thinking.

Would he really jam a set on the dryest board ever? If he jams a straight draw there he might jam JJ and QQ so idk.

Seymour went to pure instinct and when that is not refined fear takes over. The money probably means nothing to Seymour but nobody wants to look silly on TV.


Charlito
Tulane Fan
Member since Oct 2007
759 posts

re: WSOP 2019
He just made himself look silly with the tank muck


Pocket Kingz
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2013
1448 posts

re: WSOP 2019
Seymour played that hand perfectly. He lost the min.

Huge mistake by Cudos there. How the frick does he check there?


Charlito
Tulane Fan
Member since Oct 2007
759 posts

re: WSOP 2019
He did nothing wrong in the hand. Sitting there holding his cards for a minute afterwards was silly.

It’s a terrible check especially when the ace is bad for Seymour’s range as well. He’s hoping Seymour has A-10 he may check anyway since he checked back top 2 earlier


Pocket Kingz
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2013
1448 posts

re: WSOP 2019
yeah, the ace river induced some kind of donk thought process but still..... Even taking Seymours nitcheck with top 2 earlier and his fold with the tens out of consideration, how many player are betting into a 4 liner after leading the turn?

Only thing that calls a check raise on the river is QJ or some weirdly played 7x. Cudos shite the bed.



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Double Oh
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2008
8557 posts

re: WSOP 2019
quote:

Seymour played that hand perfectly. He lost the min.

Huge mistake by Cudos there. How the frick does he check there?




Looked like he was wanting to check raise


Double Oh
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2008
8557 posts

re: WSOP 2019
Is the guy from Lafayette still in?


icegator337
Houston Astros Fan
Lafayette
Member since Jan 2013
2107 posts

re: WSOP 2019
if you're talking about Daniel Holmes he's out, finished 250th


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