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2
Posted on 6/7/22 at 9:46 am to lsudepression
Top 5
Posted on 6/7/22 at 9:46 am to grizzlylongcut
1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Wilt
4) Lebron
5) Magic
6) Bird
7) Shaq
8) Russell
9) Curry
10) Duncan
2) Kareem
3) Wilt
4) Lebron
5) Magic
6) Bird
7) Shaq
8) Russell
9) Curry
10) Duncan
This post was edited on 6/7/22 at 10:07 am
Posted on 6/7/22 at 9:48 am to Smoke7024
It’s not always about numbers…… Bird made players around him better way more than Bron ever has.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 9:53 am to grizzlylongcut
quote:
Yeah, they're essentially the same, buddy.
They arent, which I'm guessing is why you dont want to pull them up.
Thats before even getting into the fact Lebron has approaching almost double the points and assists and other counting stats. All done with greater overall efficiency and per game volume over his career. A career that has almost 40% more games played and counting. More MVP's, more Finals MVP's, More All Team appearances, All Defensive appearances, MVP votes.
There is almost no way you can slice the numbers, accolades, and achievements and come out with LArry Bird as the more accomplished or better player.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 10:06 am to dukke v
quote:
It’s not always about numbers…… Bird made players around him better way more than Bron ever has.
Nah, they both have elevated teams to ridiculous levels.
09-10 Cavs (with Lebron): 61-21, Make the NBA Finals
10-11 Cavs(Lebron left): 19-63
13-14 Cavs(No Lebron): 33-49
14-15 Cavs(Lebron comes home): 53-29, Make the NBA Finals
2 Years after joining the Lakers the Lakers win the Finals with 35 year old LBJ.
And Lebron's greatest achievement in terms of elevating teams may just be the 08-09 Cavs team that won 66 games and made the Eastern Conference Finals with Mo Williams, 33 year old Ilgauskas, and Lebron's mom's side bitch as his best players.
This post was edited on 6/7/22 at 10:10 am
Posted on 6/7/22 at 10:18 am to Bronc
quote:
They arent, which I'm guessing is why you dont want to pull them up.
In stats that everybody recognizes, they are. Now sure we can go into all the analytic bullshite stats that you want to; but in regards to minutes per game, points per game, fg%, steals, assists, and blocks they are essentially exactly the same. The biggest differential in their per game stats is rebounds, with bird getting 2.5 more rebounds per game than LeBron.
And, let's also not forget how much better Bird's stats would've looked had the injury bug not cut his career shorter than it should've been.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 10:52 am to grizzlylongcut
quote:
minutes per game, points per game, fg%, steals, assists, and blocks they are essentially exactly the same
MPG - Bird
PPG - Lebron
APG - Lebron
FTM - Lebron
RPG - Bird
FG% - Lebron
SPG - Tied
BPG- Tied
So Lebron not only is basically tied or superior in the major categories you listed besides rebounding, but he has done so playing almost 400 more games than Bird and with almost 20,000 more minutes overall maintaining that superior efficiency.
Now if we do playoffs comparison, things start looking even better for Lebron, where the gap in points widens and the gap in rebounds lessens and Lebron still leads in all those categories.
Im just not sure how you can look at all that and come away still saying Bird is the better player historically? Lebron's peak was better, more efficient, and he's done it longer....and he's still playing and could have won the scoring title at 37.
This post was edited on 6/7/22 at 10:54 am
Posted on 6/7/22 at 10:54 am to lsudepression
3-4 range, could make a strong argument for 2
Posted on 6/7/22 at 11:01 am to Bronc
quote:
FTM - Lebron
I notice how you don't put FT% though.
quote:
FG% - Lebron
I wonder why LeBron's FG% is higher as well? Could it be that his style of play leads to a higher percentage? Whereas Bird's was a lot more difficult and still LeBron isn't but maybe 1% higher than Bird there?
Posted on 6/7/22 at 11:34 am to grizzlylongcut
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/7/22 at 11:38 am
Posted on 6/7/22 at 11:35 am to grizzlylongcut
quote:
I notice how you don't put FT% though.
I mean Lebron got to the line more and made more per game, Bird a higher percentage.
But remember when I listed for you EFG% and TS% and you handwaved it as "boom" or something?...TS metrics account for those percentages and attempts(and 3 pointers which Bird was slightly more efficient in the regular season, Lebron in the playoffs). Which, I'll remind you, Lebron is higher in both.
quote:
I wonder why LeBron's FG% is higher as well? Could it be that his style of play leads to a higher percentage? Whereas Bird's was a lot more difficult and still LeBron isn't but maybe 1% higher than Bird there?
How is playing the game and scoring more efficiently a negative exactly?
Keeping in mind Lebron's usage rate for his career is 31 and Bird's is 26. So Lebron was setting the table and controlling the ball at a much higher rate and did so more efficiently. Which, again, you have to really knot yourself up to frame that negatively.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 11:48 am to Bronc
quote:
MPG - Bird PPG - Lebron APG - Lebron FTM - Lebron RPG - Bird FG% - Lebron SPG - Tied BPG- Tied
Stop using facts and logic.. You’re making the LeBron haters look bad!
Oh btw LeBron also has more Rings, MVPs and Finals MVPs… he also beat a team who had the greatest regular season of all time in finals.
I swear LeBron could win 5 straight titles starting now and the rant would still come up with an illogical argument saying he’s still not top 5
Some of you people let your politics get in the way of everything… it’s pretty sad and pathetic honestly
Posted on 6/7/22 at 12:07 pm to Bronc
I love Bird (in retrospect, not when he played) and have very mixed feelings about LeBron but... on the balance LeBron is just the better player.
LeBron is a top two or maybe three player. Bird is no higher than four (behind Jordan, LeBron, and Kareem) and probably five or six after Magic and Wilt.
LeBron is a top two or maybe three player. Bird is no higher than four (behind Jordan, LeBron, and Kareem) and probably five or six after Magic and Wilt.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 12:08 pm to BengalShark
LeBron’s basketball deficiencies are his inability to hit free throws consistently, his decision to stop playing defense after he left Miami, inability to develop a reliable long-range shot in a 3-point game, and some bad meltdowns in the playoffs, pretty damning traits which preclude me from ranking him above people like Bird and Duncan.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 12:16 pm to Bronc
So you are like 25 and never saw bird play….
Posted on 6/7/22 at 12:22 pm to dukke v
quote:
So you are like 25 and never saw bird play….
I wish
Old enough to see the Jordan era through and peak Bird...James is better, sorry
Posted on 6/7/22 at 12:28 pm to Bronc
Ok so you are around 55ish….
I can support what you are saying…. But you have to admit how great bird was for him being not a great athlete.
I can support what you are saying…. But you have to admit how great bird was for him being not a great athlete.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 12:33 pm to dukke v
Early 2010s shel and lsupride would have went bananas in this thread
Posted on 6/7/22 at 12:45 pm to dukke v
Not that old, yet, thankfully. But old enough to watch and experience Jordan and much of Bird, though young.
And Bird and Pete were two people I watched a ton growing up cause I tried to emulate a lot of their mechanics.
I had an OG VHS copy of both Winning Basketball and Homework Basketball
I mean no one is denying that, he's in my top 10 and I already said I think he should be above guys like Kobe that I think are being a bit overrated at the moment.
And Bird and Pete were two people I watched a ton growing up cause I tried to emulate a lot of their mechanics.
I had an OG VHS copy of both Winning Basketball and Homework Basketball
quote:
But you have to admit how great bird was for him being not a great athlete.
I mean no one is denying that, he's in my top 10 and I already said I think he should be above guys like Kobe that I think are being a bit overrated at the moment.
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