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Started By
Message
Was/Is the SEC really that good or was/is it really just Meyer/Saban?
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:33 pm
Had this discussion with a group of CFB fans with various team/conference ties & it's not outlandish if you're unbiased.
SEC won 7 MNC's in a row from 2006-2012 & 7 of the past 9.
Five of those are Meyer or Saban. Saban won with LSU 3 yrs prior to that run.
SEC has been the clearcut media darling and dominant conference during that time, due in large part to the championship run & the perception that comes with that.
The 2 outliers are 2007 & 2010.
The fact is that Saban's footprint was heavily part of LSU's 2007 team that won. And AU had a great team in 2010 with great individual players. Other teams from all conferences have had good runs (even undefeated regular seasons) during that time...including LSU.
But seeing the ridiculous success of Saban & Meyer (historically & current) gives credence to the thought that the vast majority of this SEC perceived domination is purely due to those two coaches much more than the superiority of teams top to bottom.
Yes the SEC perennially has best recruiting classes & most players in NFL draft....but that doesn't automatically mean the teams are better.
Look no further than this past season. The SECW DOMINATED the polls and only lost to other SECW or SECE teams all season.
In reality, they were extremely overrated. (among those SEC teams bama is still the cream of the crop, coached by....you guessed it)
While Meyer guided the undisputed best team in the land in his 3rd year at OSU and has an undefeated season under his belt there also.
SEC won 7 MNC's in a row from 2006-2012 & 7 of the past 9.
Five of those are Meyer or Saban. Saban won with LSU 3 yrs prior to that run.
SEC has been the clearcut media darling and dominant conference during that time, due in large part to the championship run & the perception that comes with that.
The 2 outliers are 2007 & 2010.
The fact is that Saban's footprint was heavily part of LSU's 2007 team that won. And AU had a great team in 2010 with great individual players. Other teams from all conferences have had good runs (even undefeated regular seasons) during that time...including LSU.
But seeing the ridiculous success of Saban & Meyer (historically & current) gives credence to the thought that the vast majority of this SEC perceived domination is purely due to those two coaches much more than the superiority of teams top to bottom.
Yes the SEC perennially has best recruiting classes & most players in NFL draft....but that doesn't automatically mean the teams are better.
Look no further than this past season. The SECW DOMINATED the polls and only lost to other SECW or SECE teams all season.
In reality, they were extremely overrated. (among those SEC teams bama is still the cream of the crop, coached by....you guessed it)
While Meyer guided the undisputed best team in the land in his 3rd year at OSU and has an undefeated season under his belt there also.
8
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:36 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
Had this discussion with a group of CFB fans with various team/conference ties & it's not outlandish if you're unbiased.
Yes it is. Saban and Meyer prevented other SEC teams from making or winning the national championship.
we'd be talking about the LSU dynasty if it wasn't for Saban.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:37 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
You had two different coaches take Auburn to the national title game and Miles take LSU twice. They helped build the reputation too. But No doubt Meyer and Saban were a huge part.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:38 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
I think the fact that we had team that were extremely close to being in the national championship or winning if if not for Saban and Meyers speacks to the quality of the conference as a whole.
You have to think if not for Meyers at Florida in 2006, LSU would have been a 1 loss team possibly playing for a national championship which i think we could win.
If not for Bama in 2011 i think we win a championship
If not for Bama in 2012 we would have been a 1 loss team playing for the SEC title, winner between LSU and UGA going to the championship to frick up Notre Shame.
You have to think if not for Meyers at Florida in 2006, LSU would have been a 1 loss team possibly playing for a national championship which i think we could win.
If not for Bama in 2011 i think we win a championship
If not for Bama in 2012 we would have been a 1 loss team playing for the SEC title, winner between LSU and UGA going to the championship to frick up Notre Shame.
This post was edited on 1/14/15 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:39 pm to spslayto
quote:
You had two different coaches take Auburn to the national title game and Miles take LSU twice.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:40 pm to spslayto
quote:
You had two different coaches take Auburn to the national title game and Miles take LSU twice. They helped build the reputation too. But No doubt Meyer and Saban were a huge part.
In that same vein, UGA probably would've crushed ND too in 2012 if they had pulled out the SECCG against Bama.
This post was edited on 1/14/15 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:40 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:cause this isn't biased
we'd be talking about the LSU dynasty if it wasn't for Saban
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:41 pm to UGATiger26
quote:& there's no way bama will lose to an OSU team that barely made it into the playoff & lost to (gasp) 6-6 VaTech
UGA probably would've crushed ND too in 2012
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:42 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
The fact is that Saban's footprint was heavily part of LSU's 2007
Oh c'mon.....
So SEC would have won in 2011 regardless. Saban had something to do with LSU in 2011 as well? LSU should have never had to play Bama in that game. But everyone forgets how LSU destroyed the countries best that year and beat Bama at Bama.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:42 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
cause this isn't biased
Do I need to explain 2011 and 2012 to you?
2011 - we lost to Alabama in the National Title game
2012 - we lost to Alabama costing us the West. The winner of LSU-UGA would have advanced.
I think LSU winning in 2007, 2011, and 2012 would qualify as a dynasty.
This post was edited on 1/14/15 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:43 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
The fact is that Saban's footprint was heavily part of LSU's 2007 team that won.
oh you are one of those guys.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:45 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
& there's no way bama will lose to an OSU team that barely made it into the playoff & lost to (gasp) 6-6 VaTech
Reading comprehension is important.
quote:
UGA probably would've crushed ND too in 2012
=/
quote:
no way
Also, it is a lot different when one team can flat out dominate another in the trenches.
This post was edited on 1/14/15 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:45 pm to TigerBait1127
Too much derp
Posted on 1/14/15 at 3:48 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
The fact is that Saban's footprint was heavily part of LSU's 2007 team that won.
That was Miles' third year. Vast majority of the starters were his recruits. The seniors who played were completely developed by Miles.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 4:02 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
Seven titles won by four different teams. That's probably the best streak of conference dominance, particularly showing off the depth of the conference, in football history.
... and UGA never even won a title. They almost certainly win one in 2012 if Aaron Murray gets the ball to the end zone on that final play of the SECCG.
... and UGA never even won a title. They almost certainly win one in 2012 if Aaron Murray gets the ball to the end zone on that final play of the SECCG.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 4:09 pm to spslayto
quote:probably the most valid point is AU & we discussed that.
You had two different coaches take Auburn to the national title game and Miles take LSU twice.
One of those LSU teams (the one that won) was heavily influenced by Saban
The other was a very good team that got drummed by...Saban. And as much as we like to speculate, there's no guarantee that LSU would've won against someone else.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 4:16 pm to Baloo
I'm an SEC homer.....but the bias is super strong in here.
Understandable, I guess.
Assuming wins is just foolish. Look no further than OSU in the playoff.....given virtually no chance in either game.
Understandable, I guess.
Assuming wins is just foolish. Look no further than OSU in the playoff.....given virtually no chance in either game.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 4:20 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
Saban and Meyer were the crown jewel of the SEC dynasty. But the success of other SEC schools made it such a dominant run. Auburn and LSU making two appearances in the championship game. Each winning one. Wouldn't call that an outlier.
Posted on 1/14/15 at 4:40 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
Assuming wins is just foolish.
Well then there is no point in having this entire discussion. You're basically saying "Well you can't prove it".
Well then why even have a the discussion since it is all hypothetical anyways.
quote:
given virtually no chance in either game.
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