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Started By
Message
re: Tiger Woods - On Course Behavior/Outbursts
Posted on 7/21/09 at 9:24 am to Vood
Posted on 7/21/09 at 9:24 am to Vood
quote:
I saw Tiger in person a few years back at the TPC at Sawgrass and he ignored all the fans
quote:
most of the Golfers would atleast tip their hat as they approached the teebox
As has been stated already in this thread, It's called focus.
I believe it was last last weekend's tournament, the one that Tiger won, this was the one where they honored the young Armed Forces man in the wheelchair, the guy that had legs and arms amputated.... The guy was in the crowd, and as Tiger finished up he walked right by the guy without saying a word, but you could tell it was focus, not being snide. After Tiger won the tourney, he walked over to the guy, gave him the ball he finished with and said a few words to him... Pure Class....
I believe a lot of times with guys like Tiger, people confuse being focused with being snooty....
JMO, FWIW
1
Posted on 7/21/09 at 9:31 am to TiegerTim
quote:
they honored the young Armed Forces man in the wheelchair, the guy that had legs and arms amputated.... The guy was in the crowd, and as Tiger finished up he walked right by the guy without saying a word, but you could tell it was focus, not being snide
no Tiger actually patted the guy on the back when he passed and Anthony Kim just passed by nodded his head and smiled. fwiw.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 9:52 am to Pahnew
(no message)
Posted on 7/21/09 at 9:54 am to Pahnew
quote:i musta missed that...
no Tiger actually patted the guy on the back when he passed
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:01 am to lsugolf1105
quote:
tiger is far ahead of what jack did at this point in his career. it took jack over 100 more tournaments entered to get to 68 wins than it did tiger. it also took jack 10 more majors to get to 14 than it did tiger. jack also never won a scoring title and only won 5 POY awards. tiger will get to 18 and will get there soon. what's funny is that people will start saying he needs more second place finishes to be the best ever.
I wish Woods had the competition Nicklaus did during his career, it would certainly make for a better comparison. Tiger is great, maybe the greatest ever, but the current crop of PGA professionals is weak, at least if you judge by major championships won. If you look at Nicklaus' career, there were half a dozen players who won four or more majors during his peak playing days, and he had multiple rivals (Palmer, Watson, Player, Trevino, et al). Woods has no rival and it's really not clear if that is because he's that much better, or because the field is weak. It's probably a combination of both, but I do think the field is historically weak which makes his path to the top of history easier.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:09 am to coolpapaboze
quote:
I wish Woods had the competition Nicklaus did during his career, it would certainly make for a better comparison.
it is so much more difficult to win on tour now than it was 30 years ago. there was only a handful of guys that could win majors. now, just about everyone in the field is a stud. also, the better competition argument does not explain jack's absence of a scoring title. in my mind, there really is very little you can argue when it comes to jack being better than tiger.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:11 am to lsugolf1105
Woods does it, so does just about every other competitor on the course. The difference is they don't have hundreds of cameras following them every step he takes on the golf course.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:11 am to lsugolf1105
I don't think it's really even possible to make valid comparisons between players in different eras. We could go back and forth all day. I don't think players today have the motivation they did forty or fifty years ago to win majors. I think you basically had to win them then if you wanted to make any real money. Now, you can have a ten year career on the tour, never win a tournament, and still make seven figures every year.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:17 am to coolpapaboze
quote:
I don't think players today have the motivation they did forty or fifty years ago to win majors. I think you basically had to win them then if you wanted to make any real money. Now, you can have a ten year career on the tour, never win a tournament, and still make seven figures every year.
i agree this is true for some players but not the elite. vijay, phil, furyk, els all know that their careers will be defined by major wins. they already have all the money they need. money is not that important to them now.
you can't compare players from different eras but when you look at the stats and every meaningful one points to woods being better, that means something.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:18 am to lsugolf1105
quote:
tiger is far ahead of what jack did at this point in his career
Thats not true...he may be ahead..but Jack had some insane numbers by the time he was 34. And ya..he finished 2nd a bunch in the Majors.
quote:
it also took jack 10 more majors to get to 14 than it did tiger
Thats not many more...relatively....basically 2.5 more years...it's still comparable..easily.
quote:
jack also never won a scoring title and only won 5 POY awards.
Jack's style of play was different. He was about not making mistakes and consistantly putting up good scores. You were gonna have to beat Nicklaus..he wasnt gonna beat himself. But the man could score when he needed to...he still holds some records. No one...not even Tiger is gonna beat his career eagles record at the Masters. Ya..they've lengthened the course..but still.
quote:
what's funny is that people will start saying he needs more second place finishes to be the best ever.
I dont think Tiger needs to finish second in more majors to be the greatest. Im not contending that Tiger will be regarded as the greatest golfer of all time when he is finished. I feel he is the best ever. However Jack's 18 major wins and 18 major runner-ups is very impressive.
I also dont feel like the competition for Tiger is close to what Jack had. Now this younger generation coming up with A. Kim, Hunter Mahan, Mcilroy, and also that young Japanese phenom looks to be pretty damn good. But the golfers in Tiger's generation are pretty weak.
Anyhow...if Tiger compares himself to Jack..then I think that means WE can compare them. It's still dumb to say otherwise.
And Jack had hip and back problems...smoked..was out of shape (no one worked out back then).and was basically done by age 38 or so...except for the 86 masters. Tiger will be 34 in December. What's gonna push Tiger far ahead of Jack is his longevity...unless his knees go out again...or something else.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:24 am to HOUbengal
quote:
Thats not many more...relatively....basically 2.5 more years...it's still comparable..easily.
tiger has 4.5 years to win one major to keep up with jack's pace. that is sick considering tiger is in his prime age for golf.
quote:
Thats not true...he may be ahead..but Jack had some insane numbers by the time he was 34. And ya..he finished 2nd a bunch in the Majors.
he is way ahead in number of victories. way ahead - like 5 years. and it is more difficult to win now than before.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:25 am to lsugolf1105
I see your point and I mostly agree. But watching Watson this weekend reminded me of some of the epic final round battles he had with Nicklaus, and how that was far more common then than now. I think that matters. I think Tiger's biggest asset his his focus and I don't doubt that he would prevail in most of those matchups, but I think he might have a few less majors if he had a Watson, Palmer, Player, against whom he had to battle on a Sunday for a Major, instead of a Rocco Mediate.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:27 am to HOUbengal
quote:
and was basically done by age 38 or so...except for the 86 masters.
jack won his 15th major when he was 38.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:32 am to lsugolf1105
quote:
and it is more difficult to win now than before.
Based on what? I think it's the opposite. A tough minded young Nicklaus would be having a field day against todays players who wilt on Sundays like a flower in 100 deg heat. They would be easy pickins for him. They would fall under the pressure just like they all do when Tiger is in contention. Tiger never has to make a charge on Sunday in a Major like Jack did because all these weak minded modern players just drop like flies.
Like i said...Tiger will go down as the greatest. But you act like Jack Nicklaus is not even relevant anymore. How old are you?
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:33 am to coolpapaboze
quote:
I see your point and I mostly agree. But watching Watson this weekend reminded me of some of the epic final round battles he had with Nicklaus, and how that was far more common then than now. I think that matters. I think Tiger's biggest asset his his focus and I don't doubt that he would prevail in most of those matchups, but I think he might have a few less majors if he had a Watson, Palmer, Player, against whom he had to battle on a Sunday for a Major, instead of a Rocco Mediate.
watson finished 2nd to nicklaus in majors 0 times. trevino finished second to nicklaus in majors 0 times. seems like when watson or trevino were right there in the end, nicklaus lost. nicklaus beat bruce crampton in majors more than anyone else.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:37 am to lsugolf1105
quote:
jack won his 15th major when he was 38.
Ya..my bad...forgot he had a good year when he was 40 with a couple of wins...but then he was pretty much done.
40 is pretty young these days for golfers.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 10:49 am to HOUbengal
quote:
Like i said...Tiger will go down as the greatest. But you act like Jack Nicklaus is not even relevant anymore. How old are you?
he is the second greatest player in history and has the most career major wins. that is pretty damn relevant. i am just saying that people don't really look at the numbers when assessing tiger. golf is so much bigger now than it was. more people are playing competitive golf. i think that makes it tougher to win and especially tougher to dominate today. i think one of his greatest accomplishments is winning 6 usga titles in a row when he was a teenager. then winning 4 majors in a row, winning 7 times in a row, 142 straight cuts made. nicklaus never did any of this and it never gets mentioned.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 11:03 am to lsugolf1105
quote:
i think one of his greatest accomplishments is winning 6 usga titles in a row when he was a teenager.
I watched most of those...that was some of the funnest golf ive ever seen. If golf tournaments were Match play like they were way way back...Tiger would have at least 5 or 6 more major titles and countless more regular titles.
quote:
winning 4 majors in a row, winning 7 times in a row, 142 straight cuts made. nicklaus never did any of this and it never gets mentioned.
Ive heard it a number of times...maybe not all at the same time...but separately quite a few times.
quote:
golf is so much bigger now than it was. more people are playing competitive golf. i think that makes it tougher to win and especially tougher to dominate today
Well..it's gotten bigger BECAUSE of Tiger...just like it got ALOT bigger because of Arnie. But the competition in Tiger's generation is still pretty weak. Sergio was supposed to be a competitor for Tiger...but ooops...another head case. Mickleson...well...by incredible sheer talent alone he's won a number of tourneys and a few Majors..but oooops...a head case. Guys like Furyk, Singh, and Els are great players...but almost a generation older than Tiger. And theyre not better than the older guys that a young Nicklaus had to face in Palmer, Player, Casper, and others.
Now the influx of young talent on the rise because of Tiger's impact will hopefully be better. Hopefully they arent a bunch of weenies. I really like Mahan and Kim...although Kim makes a number of bad decisions like Phil. We'll see.
Posted on 7/21/09 at 12:21 pm to HOUbengal
Posted on 7/21/09 at 12:50 pm to lsugolf1105
Haven't read this whole thread but some observations. And yes, I follow golf a lot.
1. I would not describe Tiger as a "fit thrower" as much as he is a "pouter." He demonstrates a self pity that is different from John McEnroe blasting a judge.
2. Both pouting and throwing fits are typical of children. Tiger comes across as child like sometimes. I think he will mature and change his behavior. I hope so, because a 40 year old pouter is not a pretty thing to see.
3. Bjorn Borg threw fits early in his youth. His father took him aside and warned "If you throw your racket again I'll ban you from tennis." Borg became the most stoic player in history and it served him well.
4. When I played baseball I preferred to face a pitcher who showed emotion. It gave me a read on how he was thinking and what he might try to do. Someone like Greg Maddux who never changes his facial expression is much tougher.
1. I would not describe Tiger as a "fit thrower" as much as he is a "pouter." He demonstrates a self pity that is different from John McEnroe blasting a judge.
2. Both pouting and throwing fits are typical of children. Tiger comes across as child like sometimes. I think he will mature and change his behavior. I hope so, because a 40 year old pouter is not a pretty thing to see.
3. Bjorn Borg threw fits early in his youth. His father took him aside and warned "If you throw your racket again I'll ban you from tennis." Borg became the most stoic player in history and it served him well.
4. When I played baseball I preferred to face a pitcher who showed emotion. It gave me a read on how he was thinking and what he might try to do. Someone like Greg Maddux who never changes his facial expression is much tougher.
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