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re: Some more Steph Curry ridiculousness
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:50 pm to bgtiger
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:50 pm to bgtiger
You literally regurgitated the same ageism bullshite, couldn't produce a link that I asked you to, said I don't own a lawn, showed abysmal reading comprehension by asserting overuse of a term that was used one time, and are now doing the e-equivalent of scurrying away muttering "darn whippersnappers" under your breath.
bgtiger
bgtiger
1
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:50 pm to shel311
quote:he continues to demand evidence of an evolution of defense in the NBA after just brushing off every single piece of evidence presented
you're really not doing a good job here making logical points
This post was edited on 2/29/16 at 7:50 pm
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:50 pm to shel311
You can keep not telling me why defenses are so sophisticated today.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:50 pm to bgtiger
quote:Funny you call me out for Sports Talk then know some dude named Mad Dog who I legit know for 1 quote he's ever made, nothing else. Then some other show I've never heard of.
Only mad dog Russo is absolutely biased towards the past, and that's annoying too. Morning men, and most other hosts seem to be on the same wave length.
Sounds like someone else is listening to a little too much sports talk, not me.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:52 pm to bgtiger
quote:You don't think any new concepts have happened in the past 25 years?
You can keep not telling me why defenses are so sophisticated today.
This is amazing.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:52 pm to TbirdSpur2010
I never claimed that anything from the past was tougher, more complicated, or more sophisticated. I don't have any burden to prove anything.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:53 pm to shel311
I don't think you can tell me what new advancements have been made, but claim them as a reason why today is tougher for Curry than past players. You people made that assumption, not me.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:54 pm to shel311
I do listen, and you repeat what they say.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:55 pm to bgtiger
quote:
I never claimed that anything from the past was tougher, more complicated, or more sophisticated.
No, you just refuse to believe anything has advanced at all in the past score
quote:
I don't have any burden to prove anything.
You assert that I'm a "puke" (interesting turn of phrase for someone uptight about the term "fanboy," but I digress) that was gaga over LBJ and Kobe for the sole fact that I'm younger than you and have the temerity to give a nascent player like Curry his props.
Link to anything along these lines from me, please.
This post was edited on 2/29/16 at 7:56 pm
Posted on 2/29/16 at 7:56 pm to bgtiger
quote:So you listen, I don't. But I'm the one that listens to too much sports talk.
I do listen, and you repeat what they say.
That's par for the course for your logic in this thread.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:01 pm to shel311
LINK [
" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer">LINK
Here's an article about Thibs' defenses. In fairness, the article mentions he doesn't do anything complex, but also mentions just how complex and intricate defenses are nowadays.
But that dude is just wrong and making it up because YOU KNOW better, right?
Ideas used by the Grizzlies in their hay day of defensethat haven't been used for years and years:
LINK
And at its very simplest, if you watch the Warriors defense and don't see how what they're doing is different from back in the day, I don't know what else to tell you.
" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer">LINK
Here's an article about Thibs' defenses. In fairness, the article mentions he doesn't do anything complex, but also mentions just how complex and intricate defenses are nowadays.
But that dude is just wrong and making it up because YOU KNOW better, right?
quote:
To be sure, none of what Thibodeau preaches is new or revolutionary. Forcing the ball baseline, trapping the pick-and-roll, contesting shots, denying the post and putting oneself between ball and man when rebounding are all basic principles of defensive basketball, even (or, perhaps, especially) in this day and age of schemes that almost rival those of the NFL in their complexity.
Ideas used by the Grizzlies in their hay day of defensethat haven't been used for years and years:
LINK
And at its very simplest, if you watch the Warriors defense and don't see how what they're doing is different from back in the day, I don't know what else to tell you.
This post was edited on 2/29/16 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:05 pm to bgtiger
For the record, I'm not sure if sophistication implies that modern defenses are automatically better. Surely you can agree that there is sophistication in the analytical approach and resources available to teams these days. They can literally measure floor spacing and things of that nature.
Additionally, I believe modern defenses are equal to historical ones, at worst. It is hard to judge things like that across eras, but there have been no major rule changes that facilitate NBA offenses, so to think a guy like Curry would have a harder time 25-35 years ago is a bit preposterous.
Someone like Harden would struggle more so in the 80s and 90s, considering a lot of his game revolves around getting to the rim and that would have been difficult with some of the historical centers. However, Curry's game is built on 11 3PA per game. That physicality would be irrelevant to him.
On another note, I just want to point out how erroneous the claim about fouls being out of control in the modern game. People will bitch that the superstars get all the calls and/or the modern NBA is ticky-tack shite that wouldn't fly in the 70s or 80s, yet the 9 of the 10 lowest years of PFs per game have come since 2007, and the 11 years with the lowest FTAs per game have all come since 2000.
I can't explain how nice it is to point to a quantifiable statistic that 100% disproves the nostalgia that drives these ridiculous claims that are easily verified.
Additionally, I believe modern defenses are equal to historical ones, at worst. It is hard to judge things like that across eras, but there have been no major rule changes that facilitate NBA offenses, so to think a guy like Curry would have a harder time 25-35 years ago is a bit preposterous.
Someone like Harden would struggle more so in the 80s and 90s, considering a lot of his game revolves around getting to the rim and that would have been difficult with some of the historical centers. However, Curry's game is built on 11 3PA per game. That physicality would be irrelevant to him.
On another note, I just want to point out how erroneous the claim about fouls being out of control in the modern game. People will bitch that the superstars get all the calls and/or the modern NBA is ticky-tack shite that wouldn't fly in the 70s or 80s, yet the 9 of the 10 lowest years of PFs per game have come since 2007, and the 11 years with the lowest FTAs per game have all come since 2000.
I can't explain how nice it is to point to a quantifiable statistic that 100% disproves the nostalgia that drives these ridiculous claims that are easily verified.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:06 pm to shel311
LINK
All wrong and made up again?
All wrong and made up again?
quote:
Five-man defensive schemes in the 90s were incredibly simple compared to today. The passage of time explains some of this: every industry is built on innovation, and innovation is built on fixing a problem with the common methods of the present.
quote:
But the simplicity was also due to the existing rules, which penalized teams for, essentially, playing zone. If you wanted to double-team a player, you had to double-team a player. There was no digging down, no helping off non-shooters to pre-rotate to stop the bigger scoring threat. It was double-team or nothing. And while a few teams, such as George Karl's Sonics, would break the rules and dare officials to whistle for illegal defense, most abided by the regulations.
quote:
This made it especially easy to post up. Send your tallest man on the block, let him back down his single defender, and all he needs to do is pick out the teammate who the defense helped off to double-team. If no double-team, go to work. Consider the massive difference in these two screenshots:
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:07 pm to TbirdSpur2010
It's not that I refuse to believe that such wonderful advancements have been made... I'm just saying none of you have described any tangible evidence of such.
One guy linked a couple of blog articles that talked about how coaches look at so much film, rewind and replay, and have huge scouting reports. Right there in the largest portion of the article, I quoted a player mentioning a defense that Larry Brown was running in 2004 that he had been using for twenty years before.
The best players still score the most, affect the game the most, as it has always been. So, scouting reports are vastly unimportant. EVERYBODY knows what Weestbrook, James, Curry, are going to do... Just as everyone knew what Magic, Bird, and Jordan were going to do.
As far as defensive alignments, and help defense, undercutting screens, overplaying screens, flashing on screens, backside help, and whatever you want to call basketball defense, there hasn't been some quantum leap in defensive basketball. There never really will be. It's the best players will score and facilitate, and everyone will deal with it.
One guy linked a couple of blog articles that talked about how coaches look at so much film, rewind and replay, and have huge scouting reports. Right there in the largest portion of the article, I quoted a player mentioning a defense that Larry Brown was running in 2004 that he had been using for twenty years before.
The best players still score the most, affect the game the most, as it has always been. So, scouting reports are vastly unimportant. EVERYBODY knows what Weestbrook, James, Curry, are going to do... Just as everyone knew what Magic, Bird, and Jordan were going to do.
As far as defensive alignments, and help defense, undercutting screens, overplaying screens, flashing on screens, backside help, and whatever you want to call basketball defense, there hasn't been some quantum leap in defensive basketball. There never really will be. It's the best players will score and facilitate, and everyone will deal with it.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:07 pm to slackster
quote:See my post after yours for how it may have been tougher on Harden.
Someone like Harden would struggle more so in the 80s and 90s, considering a lot of his game revolves around getting to the rim and that would have been difficult with some of the historical centers. However, Curry's game is built on 11 3PA per game. That physicality would be irrelevant to him.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:08 pm to bgtiger
quote:
Yet it raged here up until the beginning of this season, with dividing lines being drawn mostly by age of participant.
This debate is a perfectly easy way to quarantine the basketball illiterate. If you think Kobe is a better player than LeBron historically, then I'm not going to waste my time with you (or anyone for that matter).
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:09 pm to shel311
quote:
But the simplicity was also due to the existing rules,
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:09 pm to bgtiger
quote:Not as they always have, they're doing it in different ways in today's game.
he best players still score the most, affect the game the most, as it has always been
quote:
So, scouting reports are vastly unimportant.
quote:You don't understand the role in the defensive rule changes between now and then, obviously.
As far as defensive alignments, and help defense, undercutting screens, overplaying screens, flashing on screens, backside help, and whatever you want to call basketball defense, there hasn't been some quantum leap in defensive basketball. There never really will be. It's the best players will score and facilitate, and everyone will deal with it.
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:09 pm to bgtiger
quote:So it was much simpler, is that what you're saying?
But the simplicity was also due to the existing rules,
Posted on 2/29/16 at 8:10 pm to slackster
quote:That's one.
This debate is a perfectly easy way to quarantine the basketball illiterate. If you think Kobe is a better player than LeBron historically, then I'm not going to waste my time with you (or anyone for that matter).
And oddly enough, defense 25 years ago is better and as complex as today is another.
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