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re: Once a cheater always a cheater?
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:45 am to LfcSU3520
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:45 am to LfcSU3520
I played with a guy in a college tournament who marked his ball 2 inches closer to the hole everytime he got around 20 ft from the hole, he played for South Florida....
I said something about it and that was it nothing happened, I hate fricking cheaters
I said something about it and that was it nothing happened, I hate fricking cheaters
1
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:49 am to HDTigers
I hated the frickers who would hack around on a hole in the trees in JR golf and somehow mark it as a bogey on the scorecard.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 9:04 am to Golfer
My Dad used to always tell me, "If you'll cheat in a golf game, no matter how casual it is, you'll cheat on anything." Honor is SUPPOSED to be what the game is based on.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 9:19 am to Golfer
quote:
As for the OP, it could have been an honest mistake, fluff could have been getting a ball ready for the next hole. Although since this was a good while ago, was the balata or wound ball still being used?
Uh, no. Getting a ball ready for the next hole only involves taking it out of the sleeve.
This is one of those things that a caddy does with the understanding that if he is busted, it's on him. It happens more than you think. Everyone cheats at something.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 9:26 am to Proejo
quote:
Ten years ago, in the GTE Byron Nelson Tournament (yes, it was GTE then), my wife and I were on the 17th hole (a Par 3) sitting behind the green, Saturday round. Tiger hits into the green, to the right about 25 feet from the hole. Fluff Cowan is his caddy. Tiger walks up to the ball, spots it and tosses it to his caddy.
When he catches the ball, Fluff puts the ball into his towel to clean it, and both of us clearly saw that he had a second ball in the towel. My wife looked at me and I looked at her and we both said at the same time, "Oh my God! He's cheating. He can't do that."
It was just one of those fleeting moments but how stupid was that? Using one ball to hit and another to putt with? Cheating? Stupid rule? Maybe, but it's still a rule. To this day my wife and I have both considered Tiger less than his public image. He's proven us correct in our assessment.
I agree that if he switched balls then he cheated. I have been and am a huge Tiger fan since day one. I believe I have watched him as much as anyone. I have never seen him cheat.
As much scrutiny as he gets are there any video or news accounts of this incident? Ive never heard any mention of it except from you and your wife.
Please post the proper links.
This post was edited on 12/11/09 at 9:27 am
Posted on 12/11/09 at 9:36 am to Golfer
quote:Just saying...He who trust least should be trusted least of all.
I hated the frickers who would hack around on a hole in the trees in JR golf and somehow mark it as a bogey on the scorecard.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 9:46 am to Proejo
quote:
correct me if I'm wrong but he's allowed to change balls on the green.
Absolutely true. I have played tournament golf for years. It is very commonplace to change balls once you reach the green. The inspection is not all that important. What is important is that you notify the player keeping your score.
The "One Ball" Rule applies. If you are playing a Titleist PRO V1 when you tee off on the first hole, that is the only make of ball you may use in the round.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 4:15 pm to bomber77
quote:
bomber77
quote:
Please post the proper links.
heros and dreams die hard, huh?
Posted on 12/11/09 at 4:29 pm to golftigers
quote:
Absolutely true. I have played tournament golf for years. It is very commonplace to change balls once you reach the green. The inspection is not all that important. What is important is that you notify the player keeping your score. The "One Ball" Rule applies. If you are playing a Titleist PRO V1 when you tee off on the first hole, that is the only make of ball you may use in the round.
Then you've been cheating for years. Once you tee off on the hole, you have to finish the hole with that ball. The only way you can take a ball out of play on a hole is if the ball has damaged and is no longer playable, as in no longer round. Hitting a tree, cart path, etc. does not make it unplayable.
In the case of Fluff, there are a lot of times where the caddy will pull out a new ball before putting the bag down and put it in his pocket. Once the player finishes the hole, he hands him the new one when he hands him the putter and the old ball, or the caddy will just carry a ball with him in the event that they player wants to switch. If he just pulled it out and the player tosses him the ball, he doesn't really have time to throw it in his pocket or bib. I highly doubt that he's been switching golf balls for his players on the greens, he's caddied for a lot of great players besides Tiger, and the caddies would not let that crap go, and they would know he's doing it
This post was edited on 12/11/09 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 12/11/09 at 4:34 pm to Proejo
So you're saying Tiger cheated all these years and dishonesty is the reason for his success? Or are you saying the fact that he supposedly cheated on the field makes him a bad husband. What exactly are you saying?
Posted on 12/11/09 at 4:36 pm to golftigers
quote:
What is important is that you notify the player keeping your score.
Well.. it's a wee bit more complicated than just that:
USGA Rule 5-3. Ball Unfit for Play
A ball is unfit for play if it is visibly cut, cracked or out of shape. A ball is not unfit for play solely because mud or other materials adhere to it, its surface is scratched or scraped or its paint is damaged or discolored.
If a player has reason to believe his ball has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, he may lift the ball, without penalty, to determine whether it is unfit.
Before lifting the ball, the player must announce his intention to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play and mark the position of the ball. He may then lift and examine it, provided that he gives his opponent, marker or fellow-competitor an opportunity to examine the ball and observe the lifting and replacement. The ball must not be cleaned when lifted under Rule 5-3.
If the player fails to comply with all or any part of this procedure or if he lifts the ball without having reason to believe that it has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.
If it is determined that the ball has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, the player may substitute another ball, placing it on the spot where the original ball lay. Otherwise, the original ball must be replaced. If a player substitutes a ball when not permitted and makes a stroke at the wrongly substituted ball, he incurs the general penalty for a breach of Rule 5-3, but there is no additional penalty under this Rule or Rule 15-2.
If a ball breaks into pieces as a result of a stroke, the stroke is canceled and the player must play a ball, without penalty, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was played (see Rule 20-5).
*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 5-3:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
*If a player incurs the general penalty for breach of Rule 5-3, there is no additional penalty under this Rule.
Note 1: If the opponent, marker or fellow-competitor wishes to dispute a claim of unfitness, he must do so before the player plays another ball.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 4:42 pm to Proejo
quote:
When he catches the ball, Fluff puts the ball into his towel to clean it, and both of us clearly saw that he had a second ball in the towel. My wife looked at me and I looked at her and we both said at the same time, "Oh my God! He's cheating. He can't do that."
Kinda trivial huh???
Posted on 12/11/09 at 5:02 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
correct me if I'm wrong but he's allowed to change balls on the green.
You are allowed to change balls in the middle of a hole, yet only under certain circumstances, the ball must be damaged and inspected by your playing partner, he must then agree,
Posted on 12/11/09 at 5:13 pm to siliconvalleytiger
quote:
So you're saying Tiger cheated all these years and dishonesty is the reason for his success?
Okay, so you want to play that game? First, I wrote something, I didn't "say" anything. I also was not ambiguous in any detail nor in my personal estimate of Tiger Wood's character, which has now been proven to be the correct assessment. Hey, I know people who cheat on their taxes, cheat on their spouse, cheat on their commitments, etc.. It doesn't mean I don't personally like them, it just means that I know things about them that lower my estimation of them.
quote:
Or are you saying the fact that he supposedly cheated on the field makes him a bad husband.
I don't need to write that Tiger Woods is a bad husband when his actions have already spoken more volumes and more loudly than anything that I could ever say... or write.
quote:
What exactly are you saying?
I wrote of an incident that occured on a golf course that altered the way I have viewed Tiger Woods for ten years.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 5:15 pm to Proejo
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bomber77
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
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Please post the proper links.
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heros and dreams die hard, huh?
Do you have the links or do I just have to take your word for it? Its amazing to me that just you and your wife have known for all these years that Tiger was cheating at golf.
I don't have heros younger than me. Seems kind of childish. I dont have many heros period and it sure wouldnt be a sports figure.
My heros, My mother and the WWII vet that use to live next to me. Maybe Ronald Reagan.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 5:19 pm to bomber77
he hasn't 'known' that he was cheating at golf. He's suspected it.
He didn't see him put the second ball in play, rather just saw it was in Fluff's towel.
Doesn't look good sure, but it's not damning evidence.
He didn't see him put the second ball in play, rather just saw it was in Fluff's towel.
Doesn't look good sure, but it's not damning evidence.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 5:25 pm to golftigers
quote:
Absolutely true
Nope. "Lift, Clean and Replace" Not change.
quote:
It is very commonplace to change balls once you reach the green.
Agreed but that does not make it legal. Some people like to use those 2 color "putting balls" and line them up all nice. Illegal.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 5:27 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
Doesn't look good sure, but it's not damning evidence.
How is this evidence? Because he and his wife are the only ones on the planet to see it and they both saw it then looked at each other. Come on!
Posted on 12/11/09 at 5:28 pm to bomber77
who gives a shite if that's his story?
Does that mean I want his majors revoked? Nope. It's just an interesting thing that he and his wife noticed.
It really means nothing, but to them it meant a lot. All he did was tell us the story.
Does that mean I want his majors revoked? Nope. It's just an interesting thing that he and his wife noticed.
It really means nothing, but to them it meant a lot. All he did was tell us the story.
Posted on 12/11/09 at 5:28 pm to dukke v
quote:
Kinda trivial huh???
Maybe so, Peej. I guess, cheating to win a million dollar first place prize just doesn't have the same stigma it once had.
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