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Once a cheater always a cheater?

Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:35 am
Posted by Proejo
Dallas
Member since Oct 2007
5889 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:35 am
Ten years ago, in the GTE Byron Nelson Tournament (yes, it was GTE then), my wife and I were on the 17th hole (a Par 3) sitting behind the green, Saturday round. Tiger hits into the green, to the right about 25 feet from the hole. Fluff Cowan is his caddy. Tiger walks up to the ball, spots it and tosses it to his caddy.

When he catches the ball, Fluff puts the ball into his towel to clean it, and both of us clearly saw that he had a second ball in the towel. My wife looked at me and I looked at her and we both said at the same time, "Oh my God! He's cheating. He can't do that."

It was just one of those fleeting moments but how stupid was that? Using one ball to hit and another to putt with? Cheating? Stupid rule? Maybe, but it's still a rule. To this day my wife and I have both considered Tiger less than his public image. He's proven us correct in our assessment.
Posted by DollaChoppa
I Simp for ACC
Member since May 2008
84774 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:37 am to
A ball is a ball.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:39 am to
quote:

To this day my wife and I have both considered Tiger less than his public image. He's proven us correct in our assessment.


frick, why weren't you there to warn us?
Posted by geauxtigers2
Lawrence, Kansas
Member since Jul 2007
4822 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:40 am to
Ya cause swappping a ball between shots and cheating on your wife with whoever many women it is now is so similar.
Posted by Proejo
Dallas
Member since Oct 2007
5889 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:41 am to
quote:

A ball is a ball.


It's still stupid to cheat by playing another ball. His whole golf career woulda' been fricked had that been caught on camera. Maybe I'm just being naive and that's how they do it on tour.
Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:45 am to
ummm, correct me if I'm wrong but he's allowed to change balls on the green.

In fact, I'm almost 100% certain. When you play wedge shots you typically strip your ball, so you would take it out of play and putt with a new one.

So you guys might have been right about him, but for the wrong reasons.
Posted by geauxtigers2
Lawrence, Kansas
Member since Jul 2007
4822 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:49 am to
In tournament golf you can't switch a ball at any point after hitting it off the tee. On the next T-box you must point out that you are switching balls and make sure everyone hears.
Posted by Proejo
Dallas
Member since Oct 2007
5889 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:51 am to
quote:

ummm, correct me if I'm wrong but he's allowed to change balls on the green.

In fact, I'm almost 100% certain. When you play wedge shots you typically strip your ball, so you would take it out of play and putt with a new one.

So you guys might have been right about him, but for the wrong reasons.


You would be 100% incorrect.

Rules of Golf require using the same ball from tee shot to hole out, unless the ball becomes unplayable. Here is the entire text of the rule...

5-3. Ball Unfit for Play
A ball is unfit for play if it is visibly cut, cracked or out of shape. A ball is not unfit for play solely because mud or other materials adhere to it, its surface is scratched or scraped or its paint is damaged or discolored.

If a player has reason to believe his ball has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, he may lift the ball, without penalty, to determine whether it is unfit.

Before lifting the ball, the player must announce his intention to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play and mark the position of the ball. He may then lift and examine it, provided that he gives his opponent, marker or fellow-competitor an opportunity to examine the ball and observe the lifting and replacement. The ball must not be cleaned when lifted under Rule 5-3.

If the player fails to comply with all or any part of this procedure or if he lifts the ball without having reason to believe that it has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.

If it is determined that the ball has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, the player may substitute another ball, placing it on the spot where the original ball lay. Otherwise, the original ball must be replaced. If a player substitutes a ball when not permitted and makes a stroke at the wrongly substituted ball, he incurs the general penalty for a breach of Rule 5-3, but there is no additional penalty under this Rule or Rule 15-2.

If a ball breaks into pieces as a result of a stroke, the stroke is canceled and the player must play a ball, without penalty, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was played (see Rule 20-5).

*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 5-3:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
*If a player incurs the general penalty for breach of Rule 5-3, there is no additional penalty under this Rule.

Note 1: If the opponent, marker or fellow-competitor wishes to dispute a claim of unfitness, he must do so before the player plays another ball.

The PGA implemented a rule requiring that the player use the same brand and model of ball for the entire round, allegedly to prevent players from becoming marketing 'billboards' and playing different types of balls during a round based on the characteristics of a given hole (one for length, one for spin, one for control, etc.). In other words, if you tee off on #1 with a Callaway HT Tour, you have to play the entire round with that same make and model, not even switching to another type of ball made by Callaway.
Source(s):
Rules of Golf
Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:53 am to
shite, I did not know that.

I used to cheat my arse of then in Junior Golf. I always thought you could change on the green.
Posted by Proejo
Dallas
Member since Oct 2007
5889 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:56 am to
I used to be the tournaments chairman at my club for two years. There were always a lot of disputes and disqualifications and you learn to be damn certain what you're doing if you want to compete against a bunch of cutthroat rich guys who'll take your arse to the cleaners in a New York minute.
Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:58 am to
I'm pretty up on the rules and when you originally posted it I wasn't sure but as I was typing I became more convinced. Probably just because I've always done it.

Posted by wahoocs
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2004
22351 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 12:59 am to
Definitely cannot change ball.

They would all love to hit a hard ball off the tee, and a soft one into the green.
Posted by marvin82
Member since Aug 2008
192 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:04 am to
Damn this is why I suck so bad at golf, I never change the ball out till I lose it in the woods.
Posted by The Boat
Member since Oct 2008
164288 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:06 am to
:omg:

:omg3:
Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:07 am to
quote:

They would all love to hit a hard ball off the tee, and a soft one into the green.


i was only talking about on the green. I know you can't change it anywhere else unless it's destroyed basically.
Posted by wahoocs
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2004
22351 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:10 am to
Gotcha.

I've had to putt a smiley face or two in my day.

Couldn't miss-hit those old balatas.
This post was edited on 12/11/09 at 1:14 am
Posted by Proejo
Dallas
Member since Oct 2007
5889 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:12 am to
If you ever play for bucks and I'm not talking a 'friendly' game with your friends, but I mean a game with hundreds or thousands of dollars on the line, you better know your rules, because they are there to help you kick the arse off of someone who doesn't know the rules well. You call a guy on something in a game like that, and it cost him strokes, the likelihood of him getting smoked by you just increased ten-fold because all he's going to be thinking about is how pissed off he is at you and he's not going to be thinking about his game. Even better, if you know the rules and you call someone on the rules and that person refuses to agree with you and doesn't penalize himself... big mistake. The club pro will know the rules and at our club we have a rules committee to settle disputes. If the guy is ruled against and then refuses to pay up, the club can sanction the player and basically his name is dirt among the members.
Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:22 am to
those situations are miserable.

I've played in a few big money matches where disputes that like have come about and thankfully my playing partners have resolved them. Then again I'm glad no one called me on putting with a different ball.
Posted by Golfer
Member since Nov 2005
75052 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:27 am to
quote:

i was only talking about on the green.


You're probably relating this to the ability to clean the ball once it is on the green.

As for the OP, it could have been an honest mistake, fluff could have been getting a ball ready for the next hole. Although since this was a good while ago, was the balata or wound ball still being used?
Posted by LfcSU3520
Arizona
Member since Dec 2003
24466 posts
Posted on 12/11/09 at 1:30 am to
quote:

ou're probably relating this to the ability to clean the ball once it is on the green.


I guess so. It was one of those things I just assumed and never was corrected on it. Thank god for TD.
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