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Message
re: Official 2014 Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread (LA KINGS WIN THE CUP 3-2 F/2OT)
Posted on 5/14/14 at 9:58 am to UltimateHog
Posted on 5/14/14 at 9:58 am to UltimateHog
quote:
Crosby's line went to shite when Dupuis went down, Kunitz and Crosby did very little with an AHL winger on their right side (Gibbons)
Yet the problem is the coaching. No, it's the guy who assembled a roster so thin it couldn't sustain one injury to a winger and still compete.
Shero inherited the following players in the system, drafted by Patrick: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Orpik, Scuderi, and Letang. He didn't build that core, it was already there. He made some good trades along the way (notably robbing the Stars of Niskanen and Neal for Goligoski, who sucks).
Since taking Jordan Staal in 2006 with his first pick of his first draft, the Pens have never taken a player in the draft who has played 100 games for the big club. That's a total failure of drafting. It's forced Shero to turn to trades and free agency, leading to an expensive, top heavy roster. They have $41.4 million tied up in 7 players... for the next three seasons. That's not even getting into the MAF deal.
Shero's not an awful GM, and he is a shrewd trader who takes advantage of newbie GMs. But they won a Stanley Cup with a roster someone else built, and they haven't gotten better in his tenure. And their cap situation is about to fall off a cliff. He's going to save his own skin by blaming Disco Dan, but really, Bylsma worked miracles in the regular season with the roster and to his credit, his team did outplay the Rangers in this series, they just couldn't score.
But the real problem is the Penguins can't blame Crosby, who was a petulant child, like he has been for the past few seasons. They won a Cup when Malkin carried them, but Crosby has grown to such a presence that he is essentially bigger than the club. And his leadership is even more wildly overrated than Shero's skills as a GM. He spent the postseason showing up his coach, whining to the refs, and not scoring. His performance wasn't embarrassing like it was in that Flyers series a few years back, but it wasn't one for the clip reel.
Oh, and James Neal is signed for four more years at an AAV of $5 million. Good luck getting any value on that.
1
Posted on 5/14/14 at 10:02 am to Baloo
I really hope the Caps get Bylsma when he is fired, I really do.
Reignite the rivalry and then you can see how mediocre he is for yourself.
And wtf are you talking about? Couldn't compete? They were the most injured team in the NHL and won their division by a landslide, were the 2 seed, and lost in the second round in game 7. Couldn't compete? Are you drunk?
That's a steal. There will be 20 teams lined up to trade for Neal if he's made available.
Reignite the rivalry and then you can see how mediocre he is for yourself.
quote:
Yet the problem is the coaching. No, it's the guy who assembled a roster so thin it couldn't sustain one injury to a winger and still compete.
And wtf are you talking about? Couldn't compete? They were the most injured team in the NHL and won their division by a landslide, were the 2 seed, and lost in the second round in game 7. Couldn't compete? Are you drunk?
quote:
Oh, and James Neal is signed for four more years at an AAV of $5 million. Good luck getting any value on that.
That's a steal. There will be 20 teams lined up to trade for Neal if he's made available.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 10:04 am
Posted on 5/14/14 at 10:08 am to UltimateHog
Tough loss last night.
I see everyone is already calling for Shero and Bylsma's head. Never not been to the playoffs... just saying.
letting go of Byslma would come back to haunt us
G-A-U-RAN-TEE it... too many organizations in our division/conference looking right now... big mistake to let either, but especially Dan go
This season was riddled with injury, we need everyone to get back to full health this off season, come back and be a one seed next year
I see everyone is already calling for Shero and Bylsma's head. Never not been to the playoffs... just saying.
letting go of Byslma would come back to haunt us
G-A-U-RAN-TEE it... too many organizations in our division/conference looking right now... big mistake to let either, but especially Dan go
This season was riddled with injury, we need everyone to get back to full health this off season, come back and be a one seed next year
Posted on 5/14/14 at 10:11 am to UltimateHog
quote:yeah, i think this is part of the issue. More quickness, stickhandling from the defense does not beat the Rangers.
Pouliot is a Letang clone
Either way, agree to disagree, and it will be an interesting offseason.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 10:13 am to MisterSenator
Just no. This isn't even a debate anyways, Bylsma is gone. Shero almost for sure too. They deserve to be gone.
I don't want to call anyone out or be a dick, but if you think Disco and Shero should still have a job in Pittsburgh, yikes. Outside people sure, they have no clue.
I don't want to call anyone out or be a dick, but if you think Disco and Shero should still have a job in Pittsburgh, yikes. Outside people sure, they have no clue.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 10:15 am to UltimateHog
quote:
Mario Lemieux has a brilliant hockey mind, one of the brightest in the sport's history. But he's never needed that to grasp that the founding principal of the Penguins' greatest successes has been star power. And preserving and building around that star power.
Ron Burkle has a brilliant business mind. He's a self-made billionaire who built his grocery empire from the ground up. But he'll never need that to grasp that, if he's got two of the most valuable assets in his industry, his top priority has to be to protecting and enhancing their value.
These guys are plenty hacked off. I've mentioned that, right?
OK, good. So I don't have to repeat that the Penguins' owners will take action now that the team's latest choke/gag/collapse/freefall/fold turned official with the 2-1 loss to the New York Rangers in Game 7 of their Stanley Cup playoff series Tuesday at Consol Energy Center.
Expect the action to be seismic.
Expect it to be the “end of an era,” as Pittsburgh's mayor, Bill Peduto, tweeted right at the final horn.
Expect it to result in the firings of Ray Shero and Dan Bylsma.
And what's more, I'm told, expect it to be based primarily on an organization-wide failure at supporting and protecting Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin.
There are other issues, but none is close to that one. Lemieux and Burkle have been seething at how their stars, in whom they've invested $180 million, were treated in these playoffs. Not at opponents or officiating, but at their own team's inability/unwillingness to address it.
I'll back Lemieux and Burkle emphatically: It's time for a change.
That isn't to excuse the top two stars, Crosby especially. Neither was good enough, Crosby especially. Neither was tough enough, Crosby especially.
Malkin wound up with six goals and was a skating terror in these final three losses but also went scoreless in the last two.
And Crosby — I can't believe I'm about to type this — scored one goal in the playoffs.
One! One goal in 13 games for the NHL's scoring champ and slam-dunk MVP!
“Obviously, I would have liked to score more, contribute more,” Crosby said after the game, when he also affirmed one final time he was healthy. “It wasn't a lack of effort or competing. But it doesn't make it any easier, I'll tell you that.”
Let's not mince words here: The captain let down his team.
But be equally sure that the reverse is true, and that's going to prove far more pivotal.
There's no intelligent reason the Penguins — the front office, the coaching staff and, yes, Crosby's teammates — should have allowed him to take a fraction of the abuse he did. It was disgraceful. It should have been embarrassing, though I'm not sure it was. There never was an answer for Columbus' Brandon Dubinsky. Nor the Rangers' Marc Staal. Those two and everyone else did as much damage as they pleased without ever having to look over their shoulders.
Blame Shero, mostly.
What happened to this GM's appreciation for tough, even dirty players, filling out his third and fourth lines?
Were Marcel Goc and Lee Stempniak all that could be culled as deadline answers?
Draft picks, anyone?
It's one thing to not acquire front-line forwards. They're expensive in cash and/or trade. But there's nothing easier or cheaper than a checking forward. And it's beyond reason that Shero gutted his roster of its guts and replaced it with a million and a half bucks worth of waiver-available Taylor Pyatt.
That can get a guy fired.
But blame Bylsma, too.
What little toughness Shero provided scarcely saw the ice. Tanner Glass was scratched from Games 2-6 even though the Penguins faced a schedule-tormented opponent and had everything to gain from being more physical. Deryk Engelland never dressed at all. This coach essentially watched with arms folded while his captain was assaulted shift after shift.
That can get a guy fired, too.
“I think you want to just punch a ticket if you want to get to the conference finals,” Bylsma said to a reporter afterward. “ It's a hard process, a hard thing to move on.”
No, Coach. No one wanted a punched ticket. They wanted some punch in this lifeless team. That capacity crowd that fairly shook the place for Game 7 wanted desperately to not be the only ones in there who cared.
There's no joy in ripping Shero or Bylsma. Both are fine men. Both have ingrained themselves into the community and the Penguins' larger family. Both were enormous parts of the 2009 championship.
But neither Crosby nor Malkin is going anywhere, and that's as it should be. They're phenomenal, iconic players who belong in this city. And yes, I still believe they can be playoff performers under better circumstances. That means a bigger, stronger, meaner, faster, deeper supporting cast, plus a coach to bring back tightness, discipline, passion and so much else that's lacking.
Hockey is a business, and the team's top hockey mind and top business mind have a couple of tough decisions to make.
They'll be a lot tougher than anything their team showed.
Read that, you Bylsma and Shero lovers and apologists.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 10:18 am
Posted on 5/14/14 at 11:11 am to UltimateHog
quote:
Read that, you Bylsma and Shero lovers and apologists.
This rant reminds me of SEC fans constantly calling for the firing of perfectly good coaches; the problem is - for all of your rage, who are you going to hire that's better than Bylsma that is available?
Torts? Good luck with that. Trotz? Sure, he gets a lot out of his talent, but he's a defensive minded coach. Your problem wasn't defense, it was offense.
Who are you going to hire?
Only one team can win the Stanley cup. Stop acting like you lost to the Toronto Maple Leafs or the Florida Panthers.
The Rangers are a good team. They have a better goalie, a better defense, and better depth. I know you don't want to hear it, but they were the better team the last 7 games. The two games you won weren't by a landslide and the Rangers were tired.
The Penguins were hampered by injuries. The players also had a shitty, entitled attitude. Think the coach will change Crosby or Malkin's attitudes and turn them into "team first" players? No way. I'd keep Bylsma if I were you because there's nobody better out there.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 11:14 am to ironsides
That is from Chief editor of the biggest Pittsburgh newspaper and one of the most respected hockey writers there is.
He's not just ranting, he's telling it exactly how it is and completely nails it.
He's not just ranting, he's telling it exactly how it is and completely nails it.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 11:17 am to ironsides
quote:
The Rangers are a good team. They have a better goalie, a better defense, and better depth. I know you don't want to hear it, but they were the better team the last 7 games. The two games you won weren't by a landslide and the Rangers were tired.
That's the problem though, the Rangers are nowhere near the team the Pens are. Hence changes coming.
If the Pens play their game and play good to great hockey, only about 3 teams can beat them. Boston, Chicago, LA. Just the truth. Rangers will be a quick out next round against either team, they're not actually very good, they rallied around St Louis and good for him.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 11:29 am to UltimateHog
quote:
That's a steal. There will be 20 teams lined up to trade for Neal if he's made available.
Please post less!
I just can not believe how proud you are to be sooo damn naïve & ignorant about anything relating to hockey! So just geaux read the article below but your head may explode, you've been warned!
U Big Dummy
Posted on 5/14/14 at 11:51 am to fabtigers
You link a shitty dead spin article? Really? Is bleacher report next?
You need to learn who is who in hockey when you're trying to read, especially locally as they know more than anyone else. And every single local Penguins writer agrees to fire him. Case closed.
And as far as national media? Barry Melrose(
) , John Bucigross, Scott Burnside, Bob McKenzie of TSN... All agree Bylsma should be fired. Stop it. You have no idea.
I'd tell you to post less but luckily you already do.
You need to learn who is who in hockey when you're trying to read, especially locally as they know more than anyone else. And every single local Penguins writer agrees to fire him. Case closed.
And as far as national media? Barry Melrose(
) , John Bucigross, Scott Burnside, Bob McKenzie of TSN... All agree Bylsma should be fired. Stop it. You have no idea. I'd tell you to post less but luckily you already do.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 11:57 am
Posted on 5/14/14 at 12:20 pm to ironsides
quote:
This rant reminds me of SEC fans constantly calling for the firing of perfectly good coaches; the problem is - for all of your rage, who are you going to hire that's better than Bylsma that is available?
Exactly. People get mad at small failures and forget that this is what success looks like. Bylsma would immediately be the best coach on the market of he gets canned. I'm not a big Shero fan but the thing he is good at is trades, and the Pens need to make a ton of them. They need to clear cap space in the worst way.
Nothing in that article made me re-evaluate my stance on the Pens. I think they have a top heavy roster that wildly overacheived in the rgular season because Bylsma is a great coach. I think Crosby is too big for his britches and is going to force the Pens to fire the coach to avoid taking the blame himself and the team is going to further to double down on Crosby (which they probably should -- he's really good). The writer trying to blame Malkin too was cute, but I get that.
Bylsma has lost his star. And the star is bigger than the coach. So the coach is going to get the blame (ohmigod he didn't play Tyler Glass!) Writers overrate "toughness" and underrate "skill" (not saying you don't need toughness at all, see Rick Nash). They didn't need more Tyler Glass, they needed a third line that could skate like NY's. They didn't get unmuscled, they got outhustled. They got outtalented.
I don't think Shero gets canned, though he probably should. We'll see. that would be a quick turnaround. I expect Disco Dan to get the axe, which will thrill me, as a fan of a team looking for a coach. The Pens are one of the best possession teams in hockey, and possession is what wins games. All of the recent champs were dominant possession teams.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 12:25 pm to Baloo
Baloo I would love to see Keenan (Mr Spaceley) come to Pittsburgh. That would be a road show worth its price in gold. I think what the Pens need is not coaching but an attitude. They never show that they are willing to get ugly when times call for it. I just think they think they are all stars and nobody is willing to do dirty things. That is not coaching to me, that is attitude from the players and their agents, which the organization allows to happen.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 5/14/14 at 12:42 pm to sms151t
Update
quote:
Penguins ownership is into a second straight day of meetings that are expected to determine the future of general manager Ray Shero, multiple sources told the Tribune-Review.
Ownership favored firing Bylsma as of Wednesday, the sources said.
Ownership believed Bylsma lost the dressing room this season, specifically the support of franchise centers Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin, the sources said.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 1:08 pm to UltimateHog
Best quote from the Pitt Tribune:
Can you imagine the media shitstorm if this was anyone but the Penguins? Oh, I'm sorry your coach makes you go to meetings and isn't as much fun. Ovi was crucified for saying "fat frick" one time, not even to his coach, but has done everything coaches have asked without complaint. Milbury's head would explode if a Cap had said that about Oates.
quote:
“Players were unhappy with Bylsma’s numerous meetings and long practices and the decreasing sense of fun within the Penguins’ daily environment, the sources said.”
Can you imagine the media shitstorm if this was anyone but the Penguins? Oh, I'm sorry your coach makes you go to meetings and isn't as much fun. Ovi was crucified for saying "fat frick" one time, not even to his coach, but has done everything coaches have asked without complaint. Milbury's head would explode if a Cap had said that about Oates.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 1:09 pm to Baloo
Stars get what they want, lot more to it than that quote.
But when you lose the 2 best players in the world, you done. And rightfully so. #1 rule in sports is to have fun.
I'll trust Mario.
But when you lose the 2 best players in the world, you done. And rightfully so. #1 rule in sports is to have fun.
I'll trust Mario.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 5/14/14 at 1:21 pm to Baloo
quote:
If the Pens play their game and play good to great hockey, only about 3 teams can beat them. Boston, Chicago, LA. Just the truth.
I hate to be a dick, but you should add one more team to that list: The New York Rangers. Why? Because they beat you. 7 games, winner take all. All the difficult scheduling for the Rangers, all that talent on the Penguins side. Why? Defense baby, Goaltending, and a midget named Zuccarello and another midget named St. Louis. It is a best of seven series so that there aren't any fluke wins.
quote:
Rangers will be a quick out next round against either team, they're not actually very good, they rallied around St Louis and good for him.
Slow your roll bro, quick round exit? They just beat the 2nd best team in hockey. They will be more rested than their opponent. They are getting healthy again.
And this:
quote:
Best quote from the Pitt Tribune: quote:“Players were unhappy with Bylsma’s numerous meetings and long practices and the decreasing sense of fun within the Penguins’ daily environment, the sources said.”
Ok, so let me get this straight. They were unhappy with Bylsma taking the fun out. Being a demanding coach.
Compare that with your comment:
quote:
Baloo I would love to see Keenan (Mr Spaceley) come to Pittsburgh
Keenan would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less fun than Bylsma. I know, he used to be my team's coach. If they can't deal with Bylsma, how would they deal with Keenan?
Posted on 5/14/14 at 1:55 pm to ironsides
That was my comment about Keenan I said it as a joke. It was not Toad that said that, he knows that Keenan would be horrible there.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 2:05 pm to sms151t
Regardless, they need a psychiatrist for Crosby and Malkin more than they need a new coach.
ANYWHO.......
Passons Les Habitants!
ANYWHO.......
Passons Les Habitants!
Posted on 5/14/14 at 2:10 pm to ironsides
Might sit at Pluckers tonight for this one ...
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