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Message
re: More Tarnish on the Golden Dome: Criminals Make Your Team Better
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:22 am to WikiTiger
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:22 am to WikiTiger
quote:
-geographic population shift
No doubt. But good thing that ND recruits nationally and always has.
hell, they are posting a top 5 class this year in recruiting. That's good enough to make a BCS game, which is their goal anyway.
quote:
They could hire Nick Saban up there and they would still be a consistent 7-9 win program with an occasional great year.
bullshite.
1
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:26 am to Moustache
quote:
hell, they are posting a top 5 class this year in recruiting.
Last time I did the average of their past 5 recruiting classes, it came out to be #11.
Were they a top 11 program? Nope.
And their "top 5 class" this year won't matter either.
It's over for ND.
7-9 win seasons is what they will consistently have. They should just accept that.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:30 am to Moustache
quote:
So, if you're not in teh MNC game, you're irrelevant? Notre dame has won 16 games the last 2 years and has been to a BCS bowl just 5 years ago. That's not as irrelevant as you want to believe.
In terms of exposure and life after football, ND is a MUCH better choice than LSU or Bama.
They are irrelevant. Any relevancy they do get is based solely on their history and not any notable recent accomplishments. 8-5 records may excited fanbases for schools like bowling green or Colorado, but for Notre Dame, 8-5 is mediocre and makes them forgettable.
Life after football, why not go play at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc....?
My point is this, a great majority of recruits (if not all of them) think they are going to the NFL. Life other than football, is the last thing on their mind. Whether that's irresponsible on their part or not is an entirely different discussion.
If I sincerely believe I have what it takes to get to the next level, I'm looking at LSU, Bama, Florida, USC, etc....track record for getting people to the NFL.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:30 am to brgfather129
quote:
The best teams are the ones that don't kick talented criminals off their teams.
quote:
In order to field a solid college football team, first you need to establish a solid "five strikes and you're out" policy.
Agreed. And, if it weren't a Catholic school, ND would be praised for keeping high standards and not allowing football to rule integrity. But, since it's Catholic, they are ridiculed for maintaining their integrity.
I am an ND fan. Admittedly, they are not BCS contenders, but they do a lot with the hand they deal themselves and I think it's pretty impressive. It's certainly something I am proud of.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:30 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Last time I did the average of their past 5 recruiting classes, it came out to be #11.
Were they a top 11 program? Nope.
So, then the problem is clearly coaching. You're contradicting yourself badly.
They can clearly get close to top 10 talent, but yet they aren't a top 10 program. Logic dictates they need better coaching.
When is the last time ND had a good coach? Lou Holtz. What happened when he was there?
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:32 am to Moustache
quote:
So, then the problem is clearly coaching. You're contradicting yourself badly.
Sigh.
No, I'm arguing that the problems at ND are greater than one single issue.
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 9:32 am
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:34 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Sigh.
No, I'm arguing that the problems at ND are greater than one single issue.
Well, in your argument you said geographic shift and undesirable location were reasons. Well, you just admitted they are able to bring in close to top 10 recruiting classes every year. So, wouldn't that render the geography and location irrelevant if they can still get players?
do you think Michigan is only a 7-9 win team at best or can they do better? If you think they can do better, why?
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:41 am to Moustache
quote:
So, then the problem is clearly coaching.
Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but as one poster pointed out earlier, their is a consistent cycle when Notre Dame hires a new coach.
1) Excitement for new hire
2) Win a few games, have a decent year, we're on our way back to greatness
3) Excitement dies down when 8-5 becomes the norm for a season
4) Coaches head is called for
5) Coach fired
6) Repeat all steps listed above
When a woman files for her 4th divorce in 15 years, maybe it's not the guys she's marrying
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 9:42 am
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:45 am to dcrews
quote:
1) Excitement for new hire
True at EVERY school.
quote:
When a woman files for her 4th divorce in 15 years, maybe it's not the guys she's marrying
Answer these honestly:
1. Is Bob Davie a good coach?
2. is Tyrone Willingham a good coach? (I think Udub fans can chime in here.)
3. Is Charlie Weis a good head coach? (No experience other than ND. I think UF fans think he sucks.)
Brian Kelly is still tbd. He has installed a new O and D. LAst year, he was just as close to 10-2 as he was to 8-5. He seems to have settled on a QB. The scheudle this year will pit them at 8-4/7-5, especially with a RSFR QB. If Golson develops, there's no reason to not expect them back in the top 10 soon.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:50 am to Moustache
quote:
do you think Michigan is only a 7-9 win team at best or can they do better? If you think they can do better, why?
Michigan is the winningest program in history, yet has only a half of an NC since 1947.
That should tell you something right there.
Since 1970, the Big 10 has won 2 NC's (1997 Michigan, 2002 Ohio State, and even that win was questionable).
Point being: Midwest football's best days are behind them.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 9:55 am to WikiTiger
quote:
oint being: Midwest football's best days are behind them.
Yet, Michigan won 11 games last year and has a better recruiting class than LSU both last year and this year so far.
I'm not arguing that football in the south is not better, but at some point I think the SEC starts creating too much parody between teams in their own conference. Meanwhile, the only schools in the Mid West that will hog all the talent are Mich, ND, and tOSU. And there is still a considerable amount of talent in MI, OH, PA, and IL.
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 9:58 am
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:00 am to WikiTiger
quote:
2002 Ohio State, and even that win was questionable
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:02 am to Moustache
quote:Spot on. Hell, their schedule shits all over everybody's except for maybe UW's and Ole Missus.
As far as better competition, I think ND's schedule fricking shits all over LSU's this year.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:05 am to go ta hell ole miss
quote:
I am an ND fan. Admittedly, they are not BCS contenders, but they do a lot with the hand they deal themselves and I think it's pretty impressive. It's certainly something I am proud of.
It is kinda cool. You're not the only one in South Louisiana that is a ND fan, either. An old friend of mine lives in St. Gabriel and is a HUGE Domer fan.
I work with a few Domers, and since my kids go to Catholic schools, a few of their teachers were Domers, all nice people.
Still love to give y'all hell about football though.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:06 am to loweralabamatrojan
Wilbon went full Midwestern roots and anti-SEC on PTI:
"ND is in the Top 5 of academic for football...these are students...this isn't Florida where players are getting arrested every week."
"ND is in the Top 5 of academic for football...these are students...this isn't Florida where players are getting arrested every week."
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:19 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Michigan is the winningest program in history, yet has only a half of an NC since 1947.
That should tell you something right there.
Well most of their dominant years were before 1947 - hell even before 1920 with Fielding Yost.
But that doesn't tell the story at all.
The 10 year War and on...OSU/Michigan have knocked each other out of the MNC picture or the Big 10 title too many times to count...and back then, you really only went to the Rose Bowl - so there wasn't this...we can lose to an in conference champion and then still win the National Title (like now)...and then they traveled out West to play the Pac 10 Champs (usually USC) if Ohio State didn't ruin their year. I mean Ohio State has been ranked in the Top 5 in its history for 310 total weeks, final 22 times; USC in the Top 5 for 275 weeks...final 18 times.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 10:55 am to loweralabamatrojan
quote:
Spot on. Hell, their schedule shits all over everybody's except for maybe UW's and Ole Missus.
Notre Dame's schedule is insane this year, however, scheduling teams like that and actually beating teams like that are two different things.
LSU's scheudle last year, was one of the most if not THE most daunting in history, and they went undefeated (regular season) and did so quite easily with all things considered.
If Notre Dame can pull double digit wins with that schedule, then kudos to them and maybe they are on the rise again. But for now, I can't say I trust them to do that this year.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 11:26 am to dcrews
9/01/12
vs. Navy Dublin, Ireland 9:00 a.m. ET
WIN
09/08/12 vs. Purdue Notre Dame, Ind.
WIN
09/15/12 at Michigan State East Lansing, Mich. 8:00 p.m. ET
LOSS
09/22/12 vs. Michigan Notre Dame, Ind. 7:30 p.m. ET
WIN
Shamrock Series
10/06/12 vs. Miami Chicago, Ill. 7:30 p.m. ET
WIN
10/13/12 vs. Stanford Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
LOSS
10/20/12 vs. BYU Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
WIN
10/27/12 at Oklahoma Norman, Okla. T
LOSS
11/03/12 vs. Pittsburgh Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
WIN
11/10/12 at Boston College Chestnut Hill, Mass. TBA
WIN
11/17/12 vs. Wake Forest Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
WIN
11/24/12 at USC Los Angeles, Calif.
LOSS
This is probably a "best case" scenario for them, but I could easily see them going 6-6 with the other two losses coming from any of Miami, BYU or Michigan.
vs. Navy Dublin, Ireland 9:00 a.m. ET
WIN
09/08/12 vs. Purdue Notre Dame, Ind.
WIN
09/15/12 at Michigan State East Lansing, Mich. 8:00 p.m. ET
LOSS
09/22/12 vs. Michigan Notre Dame, Ind. 7:30 p.m. ET
WIN
Shamrock Series
10/06/12 vs. Miami Chicago, Ill. 7:30 p.m. ET
WIN
10/13/12 vs. Stanford Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
LOSS
10/20/12 vs. BYU Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
WIN
10/27/12 at Oklahoma Norman, Okla. T
LOSS
11/03/12 vs. Pittsburgh Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
WIN
11/10/12 at Boston College Chestnut Hill, Mass. TBA
WIN
11/17/12 vs. Wake Forest Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
WIN
11/24/12 at USC Los Angeles, Calif.
LOSS
This is probably a "best case" scenario for them, but I could easily see them going 6-6 with the other two losses coming from any of Miami, BYU or Michigan.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 11:54 am to loweralabamatrojan
Just thought I'd leave this here for the SECtards who think it's so much easier to get to the pros through an SEC school rather than Mich, OSU, or ND.
Players in NFL
Bama---34
Mich---32
ND-----29
Aub----32
LSU----48
OSU----49
I don't really see much of a difference there.
Players in NFL
Bama---34
Mich---32
ND-----29
Aub----32
LSU----48
OSU----49
I don't really see much of a difference there.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 12:00 pm to 70739tigah
quote:
don't see what possible advantage Notre Dame has over any SEC, Big 12, Big 10, or PAC 10 powerhouse besides tradition.
it used to be a huge advantage. we'll have to see how this shakes out. notre dame doesn't have to tell us their standards being a private school and all. personally, i hope they make it back to being competitive; i think it's good for college football.
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