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re: MJ vs Kobe vs LBJ .... comparison thru 10 seasons
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:13 pm to offshoretrash
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:13 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
Kobe and Lebron would probably quit basketball if they had to play those Piston teams MJ had to play.
Please don't tell me you are about to argue "80's defense" because if you are...
1
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:23 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Please don't tell me you are about to argue "80's defense" because if you are...
Come on man you know there were way better defensive players then than now.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:26 pm to htran90
quote:
those are the years after Shaq, notice where the discrepancy was? In the years before pau and the last 3 years (including this year) when Pau's game was declining.
Shaq, without Kobe, played 7 more seasons and went to the NBA Finals exactly 1 time and won 1 title
In the 7 season following Shaq's departure, Kobe lead the Lakers to 3 NBA Finals and won 2 titles
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:26 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
Come on man you know there were way better defensive players then than now.
No...there weren't.
Go on YouTube and just WATCH some eighties games.
Then, to verify the abortion of defense you just witnessed with your own eyes, look up stats on team defenses and game pacing from the eighties.
Then come back and try and make an argument from evidence that what you saw was actual defense.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:35 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
In the 7 season following Shaq's departure, Kobe lead the Lakers to 3 NBA Finals and won 2 titles
And couldn't win a playoff series until one of the most uneven trades in NBA history was allowed to occur and Kobe was gifted two dominant 7'footers.
I love how Kobe carried that team to 3 finals after Shaq left. He couldn't win a playoff series without Phil or a dominant big man or 2. That doesn't mean he isn't a great player, but if anyone is unjustifiably deified, it is Bryant.
Again, without Pao/Bynum or Shaq, how many playoff series has Kobe won?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:37 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
No...there weren't.
Go on YouTube and just WATCH some eighties games.
Then, to verify the abortion of defense you just witnessed with your own eyes, look up stats on team defenses and game pacing from the eighties.
Then come back and try and make an argument from evidence that what you saw was actual defens
You realize the Pistons started the defensive/rough play years at the end of the 90's right? They won the title in 88-89 and 89-90. Early 80's basketball was transformed at that point (when Jordan was peaking) into a defensive league. You clearly know very little about basketball if you want to claim those Pistons teams didn't start a rough league of play that carried over throughout the 90's until basketball was wussified for Kobe and the others.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:42 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
And couldn't win a playoff series until one of the most uneven trades in NBA history was allowed to occur and Kobe was gifted two dominant 7'footers.
This puts you on the ignore list.
Anyone who can look back and see what the Lakers REALLY gave up for Pau and say it is one of the most uneven trades in HISTORY is ignorant.
This ignorance is enhanced by the fact you even brought Bynum into the discussion (who was DRAFTED not "gifted" btw).
Bynum didn't even play in the first championship season's playoffs because of injury.
Oh and he was injured the next season as well during the finals and hobbled around.
Did I mention he missed the entire second half of the first finals run...due to injury also?
Where's the GREAT Bynum now?
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 4:43 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:45 pm to Geauxgurt
Jordan could not even have a winning RECORD without Pippen and never sniffed a title without Phil.
Lebron? Well we all know what he had to do to win...
Lebron? Well we all know what he had to do to win...
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 5:11 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:45 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
This puts you on the ignore list.
You of all people better hope this site never adds an ignore list.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 4:48 pm to Nonetheless
Don't hate...you know you missed me
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:01 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
the title in 88-89 and 89-90. Early 80's basketball was transformed at that point (when Jordan was peaking) into a defensive league. You clearly know very little about basketball if you want to claim those Pistons teams didn't start a rough league
You obviously don't know what the HELL you're talking about if you don't know that defense in the 80's was merely an option , for the most part.
Lack of defense was a HUGE criticism of the NBA in the 1980's ,but now modern fanboys want to rewrite history to fit some false narrative.
One pretty good defensive champion (Pistons) does not make a good defensive League. If you know anything about Basketball you would know that defenses weren't close to being good /let alone great in the 80's & the lack thereof was a huge criticism of the League.
And in the words of Barkley on the the Bad Boy Piston D.."just because someone fouls you hard doesn't make them great defensively".
The Bad Boy Piston team stood out because they were one of the the few teams who actually took a little pride in overall team defense. But much of it would be called 'thuggery' today.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:04 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
This puts you on the ignore list.
Anyone who can look back and see what the Lakers REALLY gave up for Pau and say it is one of the most uneven trades in HISTORY is ignorant.
This ignorance is enhanced by the fact you even brought Bynum into the discussion (who was DRAFTED not "gifted" btw).
Bynum didn't even play in the first championship season's playoffs because of injury.
Oh and he was injured the next season as well during the finals and hobbled around.
Did I mention he missed the entire second half of the first finals run...due to injury also?
Where's the GREAT Bynum now?
Guy had 3 HOFers on his team alongside him in 2004-2005 and decided to try and play hero and lost the Lakers the title that year. Anyone that watched that series saw exactly what the Lakers were going to get by picking Kobe for the next 3 years. Again, until Gasol came in, that team was horrid.
Kobe was beyond useless in game 7 in 2010 and almost single-handedly gave the series to the Celts.
Guy is a great player, but again, he's overglorified and overhyped and only a top 20 player in my mind all time.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:04 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Count LeBron and Kobe's first 3 seasons as their "college" seasons, and compare MJ, LeBron, and Kobe's stats from the same age starting with when Jordan entered the NBA.
But that's not what happened. I get your point, but that's just making more "ifs"
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:08 pm to theunknownknight
Kobe is not and never will better than Jordan, no matter how you try and twist his stats and crap
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:09 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
Guy had 3 HOFers on his team alongside him in 2004-2005 and decided to try and play hero and lost the Lakers the title that year. Anyone that watched that series saw exactly what the Lakers were going to get by picking Kobe for the next 3 years. Again, until Gasol came in, that team was horrid.
Kobe was beyond useless in game 7 in 2010 and almost single-handedly gave the series to the Celts.
Guy is a great player, but again, he's overglorified and overhyped and only a top 20 player in my mind all time.
I just read all that as...
"this guy dodged my rebuttal and question"
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:10 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Jordan could even have a winning RECORD without Pippen and never sniffed a title without Phil. Lebron? Well we all know what he had to do to win...
Oh, then who was Kobe's head coach win he got his rings?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:11 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Jordan could even have a winning RECORD without Pippen and never sniffed a title without Phil.
Lebron? Well we all know what he had to do to win...
Yeah, he only carried a franchise where his 2nd best player was mo williams for 2 seasons and before that it was no one. If you honestly don't think Kobe went into the best situation of all 3 players, you're just letting it cloud your judgement. The years between shaq/pau should have been his time to show that he was the greatest. He didn't. Great player, but not top 5 where people throw him.
ETA: Cleveland's coach was Mike Brown, you as a 'lakers' fan should know how shitty he is. that just shows how much -better- lebron is to do so much in that shitty situation.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 5:13 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:12 pm to jg8623
quote:
Oh, then who was Kobe's head coach win he got his rings?
Thanks...
for proving my point?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:12 pm to htran90
Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan and his style of play, I'll give him that. But he's not better
Posted on 2/3/14 at 5:13 pm to htran90
quote:
Yeah, he only carried a franchise
Through one of the weakest conference play off runs in NBA history. Not impressed. How'd he do when he faced a washed up version of the Spurs team Kobe demolished?
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 5:14 pm
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