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re: Let's talk about Tom Brady's last 8 playoff losses
Posted on 2/4/14 at 4:16 pm to theunknownknight
Posted on 2/4/14 at 4:16 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Brady gets TOO much credit Manning gets TOO much blame
I agree with this.
Manning is asked to do more for his team to win, and when he doesn't it gets magnified
0
Posted on 2/4/14 at 4:52 pm to Choupique19
yes they did, because they were that much better than the steelers.
rams had a legit good d that year. and it's not like drew Bledsoe was tearing it up before he got knocked out. They lucked out that drew didn't frick it all up, and they lucked out more that they didn't need Bledsoe to play against st. louis
rams had a legit good d that year. and it's not like drew Bledsoe was tearing it up before he got knocked out. They lucked out that drew didn't frick it all up, and they lucked out more that they didn't need Bledsoe to play against st. louis
Posted on 2/4/14 at 4:54 pm to shel311
quote:No one?
For anyone would believes in the wizardy of "clutch" and the guy who "plays his best in big games" and all that stuff that gets assigned to guys like Brady after winning 3 Super Bowls, how do you explain this?
Did he lose his clutch gene?
Posted on 2/4/14 at 4:55 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
arbitrary qualifier.
In the 12 seasons he has played in his career (throwing out the year he tore his knee up in Week 1) he's lead his team to 8 AFC Championship Games, 5 Super Bowl appearances and won 3 Lombardis. That is a fricking phenomenal resume.
I think we should point out that since their defense went to hell and they started riding Brady, they haven't won a super bowl .
also 0-2 without Adam Vinatieri. Who coincidental won their first 3.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 5:04 pm to theunknownknight
what a joke...pro bowls?!
and notice we're talking about offensive talent, and all of those pro bowlers are defensive players, yet we've established that
the lowest qb rating brady has had in a playoff win was 57 - no super bowls
the lowest qb rating manning has had in a playoff win was 39.6 - they won the super bowl
so again, brady is written off "his defenses carried him" when in fact that is, at the very least, more true about peyton manning.
brady is consistent in the playoffs, manning will either have a monster game or lose the game for his team...I love how the argument is that peyton manning is the greatest player of all time at the most important position, especially in his era, and yet people argue that he didn't have an all time great defense or the best coach ever or this.
he had a great coach and some good defenses. He was the centerpiece of an offense that had at least 4 hall of famers including him...1 super bowl.
his special teams spotted him 2 TDS in the divisional round last year...pick six, int, fumble...but it is the defenses fault and manning is completely absolved.
and the op is really telling.
brady doesn't get as much shite because
1. he is not considered the GOAT by an overwhelming amount of the public as Peyton is
2. he is not as good as peyton
3. he plays consistent in the playoffs.
manning gets everyone wet with that huge divisional or even title game, but he cannot go 3 games without a complete meltdown. The pressure gets to him, and that doesn't mean anything regarding his legacy. It just means he isn't good at this one thing people get all crazy about and it has cost his team a lot of playoff games
too bad the NFL playoffs isn't best of 7, then peyton could relax and would have a bazillion titles.
and notice we're talking about offensive talent, and all of those pro bowlers are defensive players, yet we've established that
the lowest qb rating brady has had in a playoff win was 57 - no super bowls
the lowest qb rating manning has had in a playoff win was 39.6 - they won the super bowl
so again, brady is written off "his defenses carried him" when in fact that is, at the very least, more true about peyton manning.
brady is consistent in the playoffs, manning will either have a monster game or lose the game for his team...I love how the argument is that peyton manning is the greatest player of all time at the most important position, especially in his era, and yet people argue that he didn't have an all time great defense or the best coach ever or this.
he had a great coach and some good defenses. He was the centerpiece of an offense that had at least 4 hall of famers including him...1 super bowl.
his special teams spotted him 2 TDS in the divisional round last year...pick six, int, fumble...but it is the defenses fault and manning is completely absolved.
and the op is really telling.
brady doesn't get as much shite because
1. he is not considered the GOAT by an overwhelming amount of the public as Peyton is
2. he is not as good as peyton
3. he plays consistent in the playoffs.
manning gets everyone wet with that huge divisional or even title game, but he cannot go 3 games without a complete meltdown. The pressure gets to him, and that doesn't mean anything regarding his legacy. It just means he isn't good at this one thing people get all crazy about and it has cost his team a lot of playoff games
too bad the NFL playoffs isn't best of 7, then peyton could relax and would have a bazillion titles.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 5:15 pm to DelU249
I like how you keep posting Manning's qb rating against the Ravens, the one time in Manning's playoff career that his team stepped up and had his back. It doesn't change the awesome performance that Manning had to lead the Colts back from a 21-3 deficit against the Patriots. (Brady threw the season ending pick, btw)
You pick the one year that his defense played well, and guess what, they did won the Super Bowl. How many times has his defense let him down? Overtime loss at San Diego when Peyton never touched the ball? Last year vs Baltimore, if the defense doesn't blow the game in regulation, Peyton finishes that game with a high 90s qb rating. I fully admit that when the temperatures dropped, he lost all touch on the ball, but that game should have never gone to overtime. Peyton still finished with a high 80s qb rating for that game. If Ben Rothliesberger doesn't trip up the Indy defender in 2005-06, Indy escapes that game and may make the Super Bowl that year.
Nearly every single Super Bowl winner has one or two plays that could have ended their season. What if Sherman just misses that tip? Maybe Denver beats San Fran, maybe they don't. But it was that close to Seattle not even making the Super Bowl. By Manning terms, they would be chokers.
You pick the one year that his defense played well, and guess what, they did won the Super Bowl. How many times has his defense let him down? Overtime loss at San Diego when Peyton never touched the ball? Last year vs Baltimore, if the defense doesn't blow the game in regulation, Peyton finishes that game with a high 90s qb rating. I fully admit that when the temperatures dropped, he lost all touch on the ball, but that game should have never gone to overtime. Peyton still finished with a high 80s qb rating for that game. If Ben Rothliesberger doesn't trip up the Indy defender in 2005-06, Indy escapes that game and may make the Super Bowl that year.
Nearly every single Super Bowl winner has one or two plays that could have ended their season. What if Sherman just misses that tip? Maybe Denver beats San Fran, maybe they don't. But it was that close to Seattle not even making the Super Bowl. By Manning terms, they would be chokers.
This post was edited on 2/4/14 at 5:16 pm
Posted on 2/4/14 at 5:19 pm to DelU249
quote:
what a joke...pro bowls?!
and notice we're talking about offensive talent, and all of those pro bowlers are defensive players, yet we've established that
Ummm...I wasn't the one who brought it up. I simply ended that aspect of the debate.
Aside from the fact a great QB will obviously increase the chances receivers and running backs make the pro bowl in the first place, the argument was made Manning played with more pro bowl WRs and running backs.
Ok then...even IF we ignore the obvious fact Manning made some of these guys pro-bowlers on offense...
Brady = 26 total pro bowlers in 13 years
Manning = 20 total pro bowlers in 16 years
Either way, anyone bringing pro bowlers into the discussion with Brady is going to lose.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 5:19 pm to Choupique19
quote:Brady's D let the opposing offense score in the last minute of the game in his last two superbowls.
How many times has his defense let him down?
Does that affect his legacy?
ETA: The argument going round and round and round.
This post was edited on 2/4/14 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 2/4/14 at 5:21 pm to Sanchito
quote:
Does that affect his legacy?
Now you are getting somewhere. Does it affect Manning and NOT Brady?
Posted on 2/4/14 at 5:23 pm to theunknownknight
quote:I agree it helps manning because if NE's D holds we probably aren't having this discussion.
Now you are getting somewhere. Does it affect Manning and NOT Brady?
Posted on 2/4/14 at 5:26 pm to Sanchito
quote:
I agree it helps manning because if NE's D holds we probably aren't having this discussion.
So you are saying Brady's defense hurt HIS legacy...
But
Not
Manning's
Ok
And if you don't understand how I came to that conclusion. Oh well. Reading comprehension is a fabulous thing.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 5:30 pm to Sanchito
The Pats defense did falter at the end of those two Super Bowls. The combined output of Brady's offense in those two games was 31 points (14 + 17). If Manning only scores 14 or 17 points in a playoff game, it's usually a loss and Peyton gets labeled as a choker.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 5:59 pm to theunknownknight
quote:I don't remember saying anything about Manning's D bro. Just that if Brady's D holds thats five titles and then we're not having this discussion, regardless of how Manning's D played in his SBs. Because I did reference SBs in that post.
So you are saying Brady's defense hurt HIS legacy...
But
Not
Manning's
Ok
And if you don't understand how I came to that conclusion. Oh well. Reading comprehension is a fabulous thing.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 6:02 pm to Sanchito
quote:
I don't remember saying anything about Manning's D bro. Just that if Brady's D holds thats five titles and then we're not having this discussion, regardless of how Manning's D played in his SBs. Because I did reference SBs in that post.
Remember that little tid-bit I included about reading comprehension in my post? Well...I guess the above response confirmed my suspicions.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 6:15 pm to theunknownknight
Tom Brady is the steadier hand in the playoffs, it can't be disputed. He doesn't have some of Manning's highs but he also doesn't have Manning's lows
They average out to the same numbers but one is more consistent in the playoffs
Manning in the playoffs is like Jamal Charles' 2012 fantasy year
They average out to the same numbers but one is more consistent in the playoffs
Manning in the playoffs is like Jamal Charles' 2012 fantasy year
Posted on 2/4/14 at 6:17 pm to DelU249
I'm exhausted, I still am not sure where we disagree. Manning faces legit criticism and people here thinks he does not or Brady is not held to the same level of scrutiny (which I believe to be totally fair given the different aspects of their situations and standin among fans/media)
Later
Later
Posted on 2/4/14 at 6:23 pm to Choupique19
quote:
the one time in Manning's playoff career that his team stepped up
You meant to say "the one time in Manning's playoff career that his team bailed his arse out"
He has had plenty of teams that stepped up on defense and/or special teams
Brady meanwhile, never had a performance so poor in his Super Bowl runs.
That game and postseason was indy's D CARRYING the team
Brady wasn't carried in 01, 03 and he flat out won it for them in 04.
Just fun facts for the "manning has never had a defense/Brady ONLY won despite him not because of him" peyton manning fan boys
Good night
Posted on 2/4/14 at 7:39 pm to DelU249
Peyton had 3 TDs to 7 INTs in the playoffs that year the Colts won the SB.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 7:42 pm to Korin
Tell me about the AFC Title game that year.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:11 pm to Choupique19
1 td/1 int.
Thanks for helping to make my point.
Thanks for helping to make my point.
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