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Started By
Message
re: Kornheiser: Nadal has removed Federer from the discussion of G.O.A.T
Posted on 6/12/13 at 2:30 am to UncleBlazer
Posted on 6/12/13 at 2:30 am to UncleBlazer
quote:
Yes no way a guy who made it to the finals, and won the Olympics at the same place can win. Righhht
Didn't say he CAN'T win..he WON'T win!
Djokovic is my fav followed by Nadal.
This post was edited on 6/12/13 at 2:32 am
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Posted on 6/12/13 at 5:12 am to bobbyray21
I am thinking they seed Rafa 4. They arent tied tobthe ATP rankings.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 5:32 am to bobbyray21
Nadal has won four majors outside the French Open. No way he has removed Federer from the discussion.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 7:44 am to bobbyray21
quote:
You had me till Milos Raonic
I saw this kid at Indian Wells. Have seen several interviews. He is really young, and has the head in the right place. He is a freak, and works hard. Any big guy who works so hard in something other than their spectacular serve will be very, very good.
I forgot Ernest Gulbis (seemed to be the flavor of the month during the spring), and Kevin Anderson.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 7:48 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
Huh? How's that gonna happen?!?!?!?! Ferrer getting some big bump cause of the French Finals?
Ferrer gained points at the french, Nadal gained no points (he was the champion the year before).
So yes, Ferrer will be 4, Nadal 5. The brits will set up Murray to play Roger, which will be an easier task than Djokovic or Rafa. Rafa will get the Djokovic side- BOOK IT. The French tried to set up Tsongas, and he couldn't deliver. They need to grow a pair, and just let them play, but they do this every year.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 7:52 am to Boss
quote:
I am thinking they seed Rafa 4. They arent tied tobthe ATP rankings.
Me too, so Djokovic and Rafa in the Semis again. Murray vs Federer in the other semis.
Of course, it is likely this won't work out like that. There will be upsets. Rafa is going into Wimbledon without a match in grass for a very very long time, he is unlikely to win.
If Murray doesn't win it this year, he won't ever win it. I think Djokovic has trouble with concentration this year, and the young ones are starting to rise.
Interesting times for tennis fans.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:01 am to austingator
quote:
I think Djokovic has trouble with concentration this year,
Nah, he's 33-5 and the only time that happened was in the weeks following the Monte Carlo win but he bounced back quite nicely at the French.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:08 am to ohiovol
Nadal at his best is better than Federer ever was. Shouldn't THAT be the measure of GOAT, rather than tournament records?
And while I'm at it, I still think Martina at her best would take Serena at hers... but that one is not as clear to me as Nadal over Federer.
And while I'm at it, I still think Martina at her best would take Serena at hers... but that one is not as clear to me as Nadal over Federer.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:09 am to Rex
quote:
Nadal at his best is better than Federer ever was. Shouldn't THAT be the measure of GOAT, rather than tournament records?
Depends on if you mean one match or one year or whatever. As far as Pete/Roger, Roger's career is way better IMO, but I think Pete's A+ game was just a bit better than Roger's. Agassi was playing out of his mind in 1999, was very solid at Wimbledon against Pete once the ball got into play, and still got blown off the court. You literally couldn't touch Pete's serve when he was on his game. I don't know that I have seen Rafa dominate like that other than clay. Maybe Wimbledon or US Open 2010, but those were pretty easy draws.
This post was edited on 6/12/13 at 8:15 am
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:10 am to Rex
quote:
Shouldn't THAT be the measure of GOAT, rather than tournament records?
Is this a subtle troll of all the anti-Lebron/pro-MJ people?
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:17 am to Rex
quote:
Nadal at his best is better than Federer ever was. Shouldn't THAT be the measure of GOAT, rather than tournament records?
And while I'm at it, I still think Martina at her best would take Serena at hers... but that one is not as clear to me as Nadal over Federer.
No, that is a stupid way to judge things. If that were the case, then Safin could be considered the best of all-time. At his best, which rarely happened, the dude was sick.
Or throw in 1999 Agassi. Or 94-95 Sampras
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:26 am to austingator
quote:
I saw this kid at Indian Wells. Have seen several interviews. He is really young, and has the head in the right place. He is a freak, and works hard. Any big guy who works so hard in something other than their spectacular serve will be very, very good.
I forgot Ernest Gulbis (seemed to be the flavor of the month during the spring), and Kevin Anderson.
I think Milos Raonic is a serve-bot. Nothing less; nothing more.
Gulbis is my homeboy. He's already 24, though.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:40 am to Boss
quote:
No, that is a stupid way to judge things.
It's not a judgement to be made in a vacuum. Nadal's record is comparable enough to Federer's to consider that other factors other than talent gave Federer the career tournament edge.
I guess we have to define what we mean by GOAT. Best career record? That's easy enough... Federer. Best player over an extended period of time? Nadal is better than Federer.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:41 am to brewhan davey
quote:
Is this a subtle troll of all the anti-Lebron/pro-MJ people?
I think it's a perfectly sensible way of framing the question. And even if it isn't the only question you use to guide your analysis, it definitely needs to be included.
Otherwise you might find yourself claiming Chris Evert was the best ever female player, or some other such silliness.
Tossing aside resumes for a second and asking yourself: "hold on, what the frick am I talking about? Chris Evert hit goddamn moonballs. Serena would double bagel her in 18 minutes with a Jack Kramer special* and fishing line for strings"...is a necessary part of the process imo.
______________________________
*
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:45 am to bobbyray21
And I do believe Serena would have double bageled Chris Evert in 18 minutes with a Jack Kramer special and fishing line for strings.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:46 am to castorinho
quote:
Nah, he's 33-5 and the only time that happened was in the weeks following the Monte Carlo win but he bounced back quite nicely at the French.
His loses this year:
Grigor Dimitrov, Del Po, Tommy Haas, and Nadal. Can you really tell me than he had any business losing to those other than Nadal? He got pushed by Stan Wrarinka to 5 sets on hard courts. I know Stan is playing out of his mind, but really?
He is back to old joker, now that he doesn't believe his gluten free diet will win matches for him. He will not dominate like he did in 2011.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:48 am to austingator
yeah but 2011 was just ridiculous, no one can keep playing at that level.
Even last year he had a great year yet still only won 1 GS.
I think he's doing just fine and he'll win one of the 2 remaining slams.
Even last year he had a great year yet still only won 1 GS.
I think he's doing just fine and he'll win one of the 2 remaining slams.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:51 am to Boss
quote:
No, that is a stupid way to judge things. If that were the case, then Safin could be considered the best of all-time. At his best, which rarely happened, the dude was sick.
Or throw in 1999 Agassi. Or 94-95 Sampras
It's not stupid at all. You're right about Safin; he was amazing at his best, and that's a fact that needs to be considered.
Safin is an extreme case. He was great like two weeks out of the year. And while I tend to think longevity -- and thus career accomplishments -- are a bit overrated in the GOAT analysis, there is also no question that greatness includes some element of sustainability.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:55 am to austingator
Raonic isn't a serve bot. I've watched him play singles and doubles. The kid is a physical freak, and not a one trick pony. He will get better for sure, because he is a student of the game, unlike Tomic.
Roger's records in tennis will never be touched, but Rafa has a chance to challenge him for GOAT. He doesn't have the resume yet, but if he wins another Wimbledon, and another hard court major he cold cement his legacy.
Pete- oh gawd. Pete was the serve and volley one trick pony. He plays ugly- as a tennis fanatic, that bugs me tremendously. That freaking forehand of his was UGLY. Effective, but not a thing of beauty. Pete won matches with his serves, and by putting pressure on his opponents because they knew they were not going to break him. He was long and served and volleyed a lot, but lacked the touch of Roger, Rafa, or Djokovic. He isn't a GOAT. In my book, Agassi was a lot more elegant player, he just didn't really love tennis his first decade playing, and just didn't give a chit. His book is simply great at explaining this.
Roger's records in tennis will never be touched, but Rafa has a chance to challenge him for GOAT. He doesn't have the resume yet, but if he wins another Wimbledon, and another hard court major he cold cement his legacy.
Pete- oh gawd. Pete was the serve and volley one trick pony. He plays ugly- as a tennis fanatic, that bugs me tremendously. That freaking forehand of his was UGLY. Effective, but not a thing of beauty. Pete won matches with his serves, and by putting pressure on his opponents because they knew they were not going to break him. He was long and served and volleyed a lot, but lacked the touch of Roger, Rafa, or Djokovic. He isn't a GOAT. In my book, Agassi was a lot more elegant player, he just didn't really love tennis his first decade playing, and just didn't give a chit. His book is simply great at explaining this.
Posted on 6/12/13 at 8:57 am to bobbyray21
quote:
And I do believe Serena would have double bageled Chris Evert in 18 minutes with a Jack Kramer special and fishing line for strings.
I agree. Chrissy was what Radwanska is now. They just can't compete with 6' tall players who move well. Sharapova isn't a great mover, but mentally she is the best out there. Serena has a killer instinct unlike anyone else I've ever seen.
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