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re: is there a more coordinated bigman in NBA history than AD23?
Posted on 3/10/15 at 9:27 am to brgfather129
Posted on 3/10/15 at 9:27 am to brgfather129
quote:
Not nearly as ridiculous as the idea that Wilt wasn't an exceptional athlete that could compete at a high level in today's NBA
Nobody said that. Some scoffed at the notion that he is better than AD just because he played against terrible competition. The best big man in the league in the best era in basketball.
Like someone said earlier, if they didn't time track and field, there is zero question in my mind that people on here would claim Jesse Owens to be faster than Asafa Powell.
This post was edited on 3/10/15 at 9:42 am
1
Posted on 3/10/15 at 9:41 am to CocoLoco
quote:Reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits seeing as I never wrote Chamberlain would put up the numbers he did if he played today. I scoffed at the notion that Davis would put up numbers better than Chamberlain if he played when Chamberlain did.
So wilt would put those stats up in the NBA today?
quote:Your reading comprehension skills make me wonder if you are.
You can't be that stupid
Posted on 3/10/15 at 9:43 am to Poodlebrain
Wilt averaged 50.4 points per game and 25.7 rebounds per game in 61-62. If you give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he can keep up the 48.5 minutes per game averaged, his insane usage, AND the athletic superiority that he had over players in that era, his averages would translate to 37.4 PPG and 15.2 rebounds per game.
Those are incredible numbers still, but they are incredibly unlikely since Wilt would lose a large chunk of the physical prowess he had in that era.
Those are incredible numbers still, but they are incredibly unlikely since Wilt would lose a large chunk of the physical prowess he had in that era.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 9:43 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
@ZachLowe_NBA Play w/ the parameters a bit, but among everything, Brow on pace for lowest turnover rate ever for star-level season: basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl…
Posted on 3/10/15 at 9:51 am to slackster
quote:
If you give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he can keep up the 48.5 minutes per game averaged, his insane usage, AND the athletic superiority that he had over players in that era, his averages would translate to 37.4 PPG and 15.2 rebounds per game.
What do you mean? Thats just the pace adjustment? He wouldn't play over 36 minutes per game.
Regardless, that year, dude shot 50% from the field and 61%(far above his career average) for free throws. Even ignoring the fact that his percentages would plummet against, you know, 7 footers with a pulse, its hardly even efficient basketball.
AD is so much better than him its unbelievable. Of course he would put up better numbers.
This post was edited on 3/10/15 at 9:52 am
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:05 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:You are taking his high jump best from his high school days, and denigrating his athleticism.
Was he olympic level? He high jumped 6'6". That's not any good for an elite athlete of that size. But don't let an inconvenient thing like track and field where the results are standardized across different eras get in the way of your belief that Wilt would be some super-human athlete in todays game.
quote:
He ran the 100-yard dash in 10.9 seconds, shot-putted 56 feet, triple jumped more than 50 feet, and won the high jump in the Big Eight track and field championships three straight years.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:19 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:Who are these 7 footers with a pulse? I look at footage of the centers Chamberlain played against and they look lean and mean compared to the centers of today. Think about this, they averaged over 20 more shots per game when Chamberlain played. That means the players were going up and down the court more times per game. Chamberlain played more minutes per game and ran more than Davis ever will.
Even ignoring the fact that his percentages would plummet against, you know, 7 footers with a pulse, its hardly even efficient basketball.
quote:If Davis is the most coordinated big man in NBA history shouldn't his athleticism exceed his peers in the same manner as Chamberlain's? Davis doesn't come close to dominating games like Chamberlain did. Davis doesn't even dominate games like Shaquille O'Neal or Hakeem Olajuwon did.
AD is so much better than him its unbelievable. Of course he would put up better numbers.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:20 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
He ran the 100-yard dash in 10.9 seconds, shot-putted 56 feet, triple jumped more than 50 feet, and won the high jump in the Big Eight track and field championships three straight years.
I'm not saying he isn't a great athlete. I'm sure he was. But vaguely saying he was a "champion" is useless and the exact type of things that lead to ridiculous rumors and legends in the first place. Everything is relevant to competition. I can dominate certain REC pickup games more than MJ could dominate NBA but I'd be laughed at if I tried out for LSU's basketball team.
Compared to today, the competition in Wilt's era, like virtually every other sport with the exception of perhaps boxing, sucked.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:37 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
If Davis is the most coordinated big man in NBA history shouldn't his athleticism exceed his peers in the same manner as Chamberlain's?
Wait, what? How would his coordination mean his athleticism should exceed his peers? His peers are freaks like Deandre Jordan, Dwight Howard, Hassan Whiteside, Javale McGee, Lamarcus Aldridge. Guys who can literally touch well over 12 feet.
quote:
Who are these 7 footers with a pulse?
See the list above. All are comparable physical specimens to Wilt, let alone his competition. The only exception is Aldridge, who has skills that brick-shooter could never dream of. Then add in Cousins, Marc, Pau, Noah Vucevic, Pekovich, Gortat. Note that about half of the competent big men are foreigners, something Wilt never had to deal with.
quote:
Davis doesn't come close to dominating games like Chamberlain did.
Dominating undersized white guys while shooting 50% and bricking FTs really impresses me.
quote:
Davis doesn't even dominate games like Shaquille O'Neal or Hakeem Olajuwon did.
What are you even talking about? His PER at 21 years of age is going to blow their career best out. He absolutely dominates games exactly like Hakeem did. Shaq was certainly more "dominant" because he had the ability to go to the same move every time even when the D knew it was coming. But Shaq is the most dominant player of all time and actually shot an incredibly efficient percentage in addition to his volume.
People act like Wilt scored at will. He scored about as many points as he took shots. Adding in turnovers, thats not even efficient basketball in the 3pt era. His coach would tell him to stop throwing up so many bricks if he played in the 3pt line era.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 11:15 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:
What do you mean? Thats just the pace adjustment? He wouldn't play over 36 minutes per game.
Basically it is just a pace adjustment. I adjusted his FGA, FTA, and TRB proportionally with the 2014-2015 league averages per game. In other words, Wilt was taking 36.7% of the league average FGAs per game (39.5/107.7) and pulling down 36.0% of the league average total rebounds. He also had a ridiculous amount of FTAs per game. If you adjust his numbers to reflect the decline in average FGAs, FTAs, and TRBs, you'll see that his points per game and rebounds per game drop drastically.
However, I did not make any adjustments for minutes played. His per 36 numbers would obviously be much worse.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 12:25 pm to slackster
quote:
his averages would translate to 37.4 PPG and 15.2 rebounds per game.
But even that is ridiculously misleading, because he would never play 48 minutes in today's game. So correcting to get his per 36, it would be 28.0 points and 11.4 rebounds with today's pace. Being guarded by David Lee's and Ryan Anderson's. On 50% shooting. In a season he never came close to matching. Dude was big and athletic, but would be absolutely nothing special in today's game.
To be fair, he did get an unreal amount of double and triple teams.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 12:33 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
but would be absolutely nothing special in today's game.
Whoa now.
Wilt would be a great player in any era, IMO, if given the same opportunities players today have.
Davis is definitely the most efficient player I've ever seen. He does things I've never seen other guys do, and does them with such little waste that it is unreal.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 12:55 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Whoa now.
Wilt would be a great player in any era, IMO, if given the same opportunities players today have.
Alright, I'm not gonna clown you for that. In fact, I agree. But the key phrase is "if given the same opportunities players today have"..... Competition certainly breads quality. He may have been able to improve his game if the standard of what a dominant big man was more than just "be tall and athletic.". But AD, KG, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan etc vs him as he was, he's not even in the same conversation.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 1:09 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:Chamberlain's career FG% is .540. Chamberlain's PER was 26.1 for his 14 year career, and his best year was 31.8. Davis' PER is 26.6 over his less than 3 years, and Davis is only at 31.6 for this partial season. Let me know when Davis leads the NBA in assists for a season, Chamberlain did.
On 50% shooting. In a season he never came close to matching
The average center during Chamberlain's career was 6'10". So he had a 3 inch height advantage over the average center. Yao Ming had over a 4 inch height advantage over the other centers he played against. Why didn't Yao put up close to the numbers of Wilt? The same can be asked for Ralph Sampson.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 1:10 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
AD is so much better than him its unbelievable
You so stupid......
Posted on 3/10/15 at 1:40 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
The average center during Chamberlain's career was 6'10". So he had a 3 inch height advantage over the average center. Yao Ming had over a 4 inch height advantage over the other centers he played against. Why didn't Yao put up close to the numbers of Wilt? The same can be asked for Ralph Sampson.
You suck at logic. How could you possibly even think this makes sense? Yao Ming didn't put up the numbers Wilt did in part because he was going up against bigger and better players than Wilt.
Nobody is arguing that Yao was a better basketball player than Wilt for his size. Charles Barkley was worlds better than both of them for his size.
But they aren't the same size and basketball doesn't give any handicaps for size, so that is completely irrelevant.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 1:43 pm to dukke v
quote:
You so stupid......
Peej, out of curiosity, why does the level of performance progress so much over time in the sports(track, swimming, weightlifting, rowing, biking,etc) where marks can be recorded and compared objectively but regress in sports where there are no objective marks but rather conjecture?
Just wanted your expert opinion.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 1:46 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
the competition in Wilt's era, like virtually every other sport with the exception of perhaps boxing, sucked
Posted on 3/10/15 at 1:47 pm to dukke v
hakeem... freaking hakeem
Posted on 3/10/15 at 1:48 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
of what a dominant big man was more than just "be tall and athletic.". But AD, KG, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan etc vs him as he was, he's not even in the same conversation.
You are out of your mind... What about Bill Russell??????
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