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re: In your opinion, how important are championships to a team-sport players legacy?
Posted on 1/7/16 at 1:29 am to gorillacoco
Posted on 1/7/16 at 1:29 am to gorillacoco
For basketball,they are somewhat important. They are not the "end-all-be-all" that some people like to use. But I feel that the truly elite top notch players has to get over the hump at least once
Football they should have 0 say, even for a qb.. For example, a qb can throw for 350 yards, 3 touchdowns no picks and 65% in a playoff game. But his team still loses. He will just be looked at as an unclutch player who chokes in big games.
Football they should have 0 say, even for a qb.. For example, a qb can throw for 350 yards, 3 touchdowns no picks and 65% in a playoff game. But his team still loses. He will just be looked at as an unclutch player who chokes in big games.
2
Posted on 1/7/16 at 4:25 am to SystemsGo
quote:
Championships are important in tennis.
So Ivan Lendel is NT a Tennis legend?????
People remember him MORE for Not winning Wimbledon than anything else he did........
Posted on 1/7/16 at 5:11 am to dukke v
If 7 other Giants took peds would SF have beat the Angels? Him and Santiago were juiced. I been a Giants fan since I was 8. Kevin Mitchell bare hand catch I said I like that team. CSB I know. Bonds should be in the hall
Posted on 1/7/16 at 5:58 am to gorillacoco
They're pretty important to us. Working on #104 NC's in football now
Posted on 1/7/16 at 6:26 am to gorillacoco
When talking about individuals, I don't care about championships at all unless they are a coach.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 6:30 am to GumBro Jackson
quote:
Championships are really important for basketball players and quarterbacks.
No they aren't. You could be the best QB of all time, but never win a championship because your team's defense was absolute shite.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 6:51 am to QJenk
quote:
Football they should have 0 say, even for a qb.. For example, a qb can throw for 350 yards, 3 touchdowns no picks and 65% in a playoff game. But his team still loses. He will just be looked at as an unclutch player who chokes in big games.
This. I think people have really short memories about everything in sports except the W/L record and then start making assumptions about how players did based on nothing else.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 6:52 am to gorillacoco
quote:
Does a lack of championships (or a very small # of them) stop someone from being an all-time great at their position? Dan Marino for example, put u
Rings are a TEAM / organizational achievement & not individual.
Robert Horry says he would give up his 7 rings to have Charles Barkley's career ,easily.
Bill Russell has 11 Rings so there should be little question that he is the greatest basketball player of all time?
This post was edited on 1/7/16 at 6:53 am
Posted on 1/7/16 at 6:57 am to pvilleguru
quote:
No they aren't. You could be the best QB of all time, but never win a championship because your team's defense was absolute shite.
I would argue the same for basketball players. Championships are a team achievement. Jordan's teams in the 90's won because they had HOF level 2 & 3 plus an elite 4 (Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman) and the greatest NBA coach in history. Jordan didn't carry those teams by himself. Same with Russell's teams that won 11 championships. Russell may have been the best player on the team but he didn't win them by himself.
IMO winning a championship is a great highlight on your legacy as a basketball player but it's still largely a team achievement.
This post was edited on 1/7/16 at 7:08 am
Posted on 1/7/16 at 7:08 am to gorillacoco
quote:
I would argue the same for basketball players. Jordan's teams in the 90's won because they had HOF level 2 & 3 plus an elite 4 (Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman). Jordan didn't carry those teams by himself.
And an organization that made great decisions.
One prime example:
The Bulls traded Olden Polynice to Seattle for Scottie Pippen.
The Bulls/ Jordan dont win 6 rings without Pippen & keeping Olden Polynice. Period.
Then they traded Will Perdue for another 1st ballot HOF' er Rodman ( who Phil Jackson claims was the 96 Finals MVP).
When Jordan was losing he ' had no help'. But once the Bulls brought in 2 1st ballot HOFer & other talent ' he carried the Bulls'.
This post was edited on 1/7/16 at 7:12 am
Posted on 1/7/16 at 7:10 am to sugar71
quote:
Bill Russell has 11 Rings so there should be little question that he is the greatest basketball player of all time?
This is what I always think when people say that Jordan is so much better than every other basketball player that ever lived. He's easily in the discussion for GOAT but I don't think he's head and shoulders above Wilt, Bill Russell, or Magic. But either way, the # of championships someone has doesn't make or break their legacy.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 8:44 am to GumBro Jackson
quote:
Championships are really important for basketball players and quarterbacks.
I agree with your more nuanced take, but we can boil it down to this statement. Basketball players and QB's have more impact on winning and losing, thus they are dinged more for a failure to win a title. Though Wilt won two, and that's while the greatest dynasty ever was playing, so he's dinged just because writers hated him.
I think the best way to say it is that titles help your case but a lack of titles doesn't hurt your case. No one downgrades Barry Sanders because he didn't win a title.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 10:33 am to QJenk
quote:
For basketball,they are somewhat important. They are not the "end-all-be-all" that some people like to use. But I feel that the truly elite top notch players has to get over the hump at least once
Fair or not, it depends on the player. Championships are the de facto argument in the LeBron vs. Jordan/Kobe/Anyone debate, but people will comfortably put guys like Malone and Barkley in the top 20 or so players without hesitation.
The bottom line is that championships are important when they're convenient to support an argument for a player you like.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 10:49 am to slackster
quote:
Championships are the de facto argument in the LeBron vs. Jordan/Kobe/Anyone debate
Which I think is ridiculous. I don't think Lebron is there yet (and may never get there) but the fact that Bill Russell won 11 championships and doesn't even get mentioned in those discussions is laughable.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 10:53 am to gorillacoco
I don't see the relevance of championships.
Take a look at Ernie Banks. He never played in a postseason game, yet is universally loved and considered one of the greatest-ever at his position.
Championships are VERY important to players (and they should be), but I don't see them as a measuring-stick in comparing the merits of individual players.
Take a look at Ernie Banks. He never played in a postseason game, yet is universally loved and considered one of the greatest-ever at his position.
Championships are VERY important to players (and they should be), but I don't see them as a measuring-stick in comparing the merits of individual players.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 11:27 am to gorillacoco
quote:
Does a lack of championships (or a very small # of them) stop someone from being an all-time great at their position?
At least in football, right or wrong, it is counted as a huge plus when determining likelihood of making the Hall of Fame. Look at any of the great dynasty teams (Steelers, Niners, Cowboys) and then look how many players on those teams are in the Hall, even if said players stats oftentimes would not be HOF worthy outside of the championship team context.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 11:31 am to gorillacoco
Important for NBA players and QBs.
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