- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: If Lebron > Jordan, does that mean Westbrook > Curry?
Posted on 4/19/19 at 4:18 pm to Tigerfan56
Posted on 4/19/19 at 4:18 pm to Tigerfan56
quote:
Plus Curry at least has shown he can be the best player on a title team, whereas Russ hasn’t even won a title playing with the likes of KD, Harden, PG.
Curry has 3 titles, zero finals MVPs though
1
Posted on 4/19/19 at 4:46 pm to Tigerfan56
You straight up comparing two players who played in drastically different eras without taking into account rule changes and faster paces and just better offensive gameplans today to maximize see efficiency. LBJ has played a good portion of his career outside of the"dead ball" era while Jordan straight up dominated it and separated himself from the others in the pack in this regard
Posted on 4/19/19 at 5:00 pm to Ron Cheramie
quote:
Curry has 3 titles, zero finals MVPs though
But he was still undeniably the best player on the first title team. He just didn’t have the best series in the finals. It would be very obtuse to dismiss that and say Curry isn’t capable of being the best player on a title team.
Posted on 4/19/19 at 5:08 pm to LittleRockHog501
quote:
You straight up comparing two players who played in drastically different eras without taking into account rule changes and faster paces and just better offensive gameplans today to maximize see efficiency. LBJ has played a good portion of his career outside of the"dead ball" era while Jordan straight up dominated it and separated himself from the others in the pack in this regard
That’s somewhat fair. I’d argue Lebron played a lot of his career before the “offensive renaissance” which started idk 4-6 years ago or so.
But it’s still different eras, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. MJ and Lebron are 1-2 all time in career PER, which accounts for pace of the era. They are separated by slimmest of margins and if you wanted to point to one all encompassing stat, especially between different eras- that would be a good one.
That, along with all other stats, should show that the margin between the two is incredibly slim, and there isn’t really a wrong answer as to who is better. But most people can’t think logically when it comes to Lebron/MJ, and they will just point to stats/talking points that lean towards the guy they like, and ignore or dismiss stats/talking points that lean the other way.
Posted on 4/19/19 at 5:36 pm to BhamDore
quote:He also has considerably more assists to the point that the points per game generated by James are higher than those by Jordan.
He passed Michael in all-time points on way fewer shots.
Posted on 4/19/19 at 5:37 pm to Tigerfan56
quote:He was the best player on the team who pulled off the greatest choke in NBA history. No one else can claim that.
It would be very obtuse to dismiss that and say Curry isn’t capable of being the best player on a title team.
Posted on 4/19/19 at 7:08 pm to BURASBOI
quote:
Lebron stans say Lebron is better because he's a better all around player. Rebounder, passer, more versatile defender.
All JORDaN DoES Is ScOrE BetTER.
LOL this was only the case during first Cleveland stint/Miami years, dude's been garbage on the defensive end last couple of years
quote:
Westbrook
quote:
better defender
quote:
than curry.
Despite neither making an all-defense team in their careers, the advanced stats typically agree with this argument
quote:
Westbrook is a better
quote:
passer
quote:
than curry
No just no, Westbrick may have Steph beaten on the assist statsheet but he's not a superior passer to Steph, Steph's as creative and fluid if not more than Russ, all occurs in the flow of the Warriors offense and him as pointman
quote:
Westbrook is a better
quote:
rebounder
quote:
than curry
Considering we're discussing PGs here, unsure I want my PGs grabbing all the boards particularly when Dray, KD, Iggy, etc are on the court, IK Russ shoots a ton of shots that enable him to grab easy rebounds and inflate that trait a bit particularly as the prevalence of the big man has diminished significantly over the years, it's smoke and mirrors and not indicative or relevant enough for the comparison
IK Steph's style of play translates to more wins and titles though
Posted on 4/19/19 at 7:38 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
LOL this was only the case during first Cleveland stint/Miami years, dude's been garbage on the defensive end last couple of years
He was still elite in '16 after a poor effort for much of '15. Looked good enough in '17 until the finals. It's only since then that his play on that end has fallen off a cliff.
Posted on 4/19/19 at 7:56 pm to imraged
Jordan was the better scorer and defender by a sizable margin. LeBron is bigger so he naturally has more rebounds. This idiotic notion that he was faster than Jordan or had more of vertical is laughable and shows millennial ignorance.
Jordan is the goat, LeBron is top 10ish. If he pulled his head out of his arse and just played basketball he’d get into the top 5.
I hope I do live to see the day a guy can pass up Jordan but it’s not LeBron, not even close. Maybe it’ll be Giannis, maybe Luka. But LeBron’s legacy is a lot of smoke and mirrors and the epitome of everything wrong with millennial athletes.
Jordan is the goat, LeBron is top 10ish. If he pulled his head out of his arse and just played basketball he’d get into the top 5.
I hope I do live to see the day a guy can pass up Jordan but it’s not LeBron, not even close. Maybe it’ll be Giannis, maybe Luka. But LeBron’s legacy is a lot of smoke and mirrors and the epitome of everything wrong with millennial athletes.
Posted on 4/19/19 at 8:01 pm to imraged
quote:
He was still elite in '16 after a poor effort for much of '15. Looked good enough in '17 until the finals. It's only since then that his play on that end has fallen off a cliff.
yeah this is factually incorrect, analysts started noticing a decline in LeBron's defensive play as early as 2014 (would provide both links regarding this but I don't possess a subscription for them, WaPo and ESPN Insider)(still all-defense second-team in 2014 though) and the advanced stats started reflecting that decline then he started bottoming out by last season and it's continued ever since, his "Chill Mode," guess his absences from the all-defense team after he returned to Cleveland should've been indicators enough in the beginning
Posted on 4/19/19 at 8:06 pm to BURASBOI
Lebron a better defender than Mike? 
Post less, clown.
Post less, clown.
Posted on 4/19/19 at 8:12 pm to BhamDore
quote:About 2000 fewer total shots than jordan but he's taken like 3500 more 3s.
He passed Michael in all-time points on way fewer shots.
This post was edited on 4/19/19 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 4/19/19 at 8:23 pm to UMRealist
How good would Lebron be if you could play absolutely no zone and he could isolate every play on offense?
Posted on 4/19/19 at 9:08 pm to Colonel Flagg
And you could hand check him
Posted on 4/19/19 at 10:25 pm to TheeRealCarolina
Lebron probably recieves some of the most contact without calls of any star guard or wing player in the NBA. Players are allowed to be more physical than usual because he is so big. So in my opinion hand checking is not really a valid point in this regard.
Not necessarily a fan of his as a Pels fan I want him to fail with the Lakers. I just think he is in the conversation with Jordan. Hard to judge them since they played so far apart and I still feel some pull to just say Jordan because of childhood nostalgia.
Not necessarily a fan of his as a Pels fan I want him to fail with the Lakers. I just think he is in the conversation with Jordan. Hard to judge them since they played so far apart and I still feel some pull to just say Jordan because of childhood nostalgia.
This post was edited on 4/19/19 at 10:33 pm
Posted on 4/19/19 at 10:48 pm to Colonel Flagg
He initiates most of that contact. Stan Van Gundy mentioned that a couple of years back but said there is no use in complaining because he had always gotten away with it so they weren’t going to start calling him for pushing guys that were guarding him now.
Posted on 4/21/19 at 1:54 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
yeah this is factually incorrect
Nope
LINK
quote:
The usual field goal percent of the shooter that the player is defending
LeBron - 44.8% Kawhi - 44.9%
Defense Dashboard
2pt FGs - Players shot 8.2% worse than their average when defended by LeBron
2pt FGs - Players shot 7.3% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi
3pt FGs - Players shots 2.7% worse than their average when defended by LeBron
3pt FGs - Players shot 1.3% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi
Overall - Players shot 7.4% worse than their average when defended by LeBron on 8.4 Defended FGs Per Game
Overall - Players shot 5.7% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi on 9.4 Defended FGs Per Game
Play type
When they were the closest isolation defender
LeBron - 69 possessions, .59 points per possession allowed, 28.8% eFG
Kawhi - 61 possessions, .69 points per possession allowed, 31% eFG
When they were the closest defender to the PnR ball handler
LeBron - 144 possessions, .66 ppp allowed, 37.1 eFG
Kawhi - 243 possessions, .65 ppp allowed, 35.8 eFG
When they were the roll man defender
LeBron - 10 possessions, .7 ppp, 38.9 eFG
Kawhi - 30 possessions, .5 ppp, 27.8 eFG
Post defense
LeBron - 43 possessions, .77 ppp, 40 eFG
Kawhi - 31 possessions, .77 ppp, 41.7 eFG
On spot up shooters
LeBron - 210 possessions, .8 ppp, 41.6 eFG
Kawhi - 200 possessions, .88 ppp, 43.6 eFG
Hand-offs
LeBron - 43 possessions, .49 ppp, 33.9 eFG
Leonard - 58 possessions, .72 ppp, 39.5 eFG Off screens
LeBron - 78 possessions, .74 ppp, 40.8 eFG
Kawhi - 96 possessions, 1.05 ppp, 51.2 eFG
That's just regular season. LeBron was godlike in the playoffs (especially the finals) posting one of the best ever defensive bpm measurements of all time for a wing player in the playoffs. Basically morphed into a mini-KG for the playoffs; I really don't understand why that year gets so overlooked for him defensively.
Here's a highlight video
'17 was much the same to a degree until things fell apart in the finals. But that was largely due to the addition of Durant just being too much for the team as a whole to deal with.
Posted on 4/21/19 at 2:37 am to imraged
Found the playoff tracking stats. This was legitimately one of the greatest defensive runs of all time and I've seen a significant number of people saying that he was actually bad. It's insane.
quote:
LeBron 2016 Playoffs (21 games)
3.2/10.2 Defensive FGs defended
Overall, held opponents to 31.8% FG (Their average FG% was 45.9%
This is a differential of -14.1% (He held opponents to -14.8% their average FG%), which is by far the best mark... For comparison, Draymond was next best at -8.4%
To break it down even further to perimeter defense and Rim protection..
3PT DEFENSE
LeBron was the Cavs best 3pt defender, and along with Livingtson and context taken into account, the best 3pt defenders
0.9/3.8 Defensive Field Goals Defended
Held opponent 3pt shooters to 24.1% (Their average 3PT% was 36.7%)
This is a differential of -12.6%
Only one guy who played 15+ playoff games (Shawn Livingston) had a slightly better differential (Abet on lower volume)
RIM PROTECTION
1.4/3.3 Defensive Field Goals Defended
Held opponents at the rim to 43.5%
The best rim protection % on the Cavs
For reference Bogut held opponents to 46.6%, and Tristan Thompson 49.2%
Posted on 4/21/19 at 5:36 am to BhamDore
quote:FIFY. His shot is shite. His ability to take it to the rim is top notch.
He passed Michael in all-time points on way fewer dunks.
Page 2 of 2
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News