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1
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:40 am to shel311
quote:
Indy+Toronto is 33-27 vs the West this season.
Portland+Utah is 33-27 vs the East this season.
I wasn't arguing that, I was pointing out why people would say that.
Also, just because those 2 stats are true (I'm assuming they are because why would you lie) doesn't change anything I said. Portland and Utah play Houston San Antonio and Golden State more than Indiana and Toronto did. If you cancel Golden State out with Cleveland for sake of argument, that means there are 2 really good teams that Utah and Portland are playing more often, therefore decreasing their overall records.
That is the argument people who buy West>East would argue, and nothing you said really refutes that
This post was edited on 5/8/17 at 9:45 am
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:41 am to RedRifle
Could he even come close to this in the west?????
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:48 am to Buckeye06
When those 2 teams from the West can't put up a better record against the EAST than the 2 East teams put up against the WEST, you or anyone who tries is going to have a hard time using that as the excuse.
If the true reason their record wasn't better was from being smacked around by the top of the West, then they'd more than make up that difference when they play the East...but they're not.
Again, there's nothing to suggest each set of 2 teams aren't basically on the same level. Wanna use SRS? Utah is 5th, Toronto 6th. Portland 16th, Indy 18th. Virtually every metric has each round's opponent virtually even.
If the true reason their record wasn't better was from being smacked around by the top of the West, then they'd more than make up that difference when they play the East...but they're not.
Again, there's nothing to suggest each set of 2 teams aren't basically on the same level. Wanna use SRS? Utah is 5th, Toronto 6th. Portland 16th, Indy 18th. Virtually every metric has each round's opponent virtually even.
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:49 am to dukke v
quote:No, LeBron couldn't possibly put up good numbers and sweep a series against the juggernauts that are Portland and Utah.
Could he even come close to this in the west?????
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:52 am to dukke v
quote:
Could he even come close to this in the west????
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:54 am to dukke v
I mean he put up 30/11/9 in the finals last year on solid efficiency after a pretty rough start to the series. The Warriors weren't quite as good defensively last year but they were still top 5 in the league. I don't see why there's any question as to whether or not he'd produce regardless of opposing defense at this point.
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:57 am to shel311
quote:
Again, there's nothing to suggest each set of 2 teams aren't basically on the same level. Wanna use SRS? Utah is 5th, Toronto 6th. Portland 16th, Indy 18th. Virtually every metric has each round's opponent virtually even.
So according to SRS...the West has the 5 best teams in the NBA. How could that possibly help your argument. That actually adds more weight to the fact that the West is superior at the top, and therefore the teams below the top teams would have less wins, as they have to play the other top 5 teams more often
Cherrypicking sucks when someone fact checks you
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:57 am to dukke v
quote:
Could he even come close to this in the west?????
If on the day of the Decision, he picks San Antonio, who here thinks he isn't still dominating the way he is now?
They probably STILL trade for Kawhi Leonard the year after, then it's Lebron, Kawhi, Duncan, and Parker. Good lord, you guys should be thankful he's not in the West.
Posted on 5/8/17 at 9:58 am to imraged
quote:I know he averaged 30/11/9 on 50% shooting in the NBA Finals last season against the 73 win Warriors, but that's not the question.
I mean he put up 30/11/9 in the finals last year on solid efficiency after a pretty rough start to the series
The question is could he do that in rounds 1 and 2 against the mighty Blazers and Jazz!!!!
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:00 am to Buckeye06
quote:Maybe it's because the SRS ratings of the 4 teams I am talking about quietly literally tell you exactly what I've been trying to tell you? Just a thought.
So according to SRS...the West has the 5 best teams in the NBA. How could that possibly help your argument
quote:2nd time, if this were the actual reason given for the 4 teams in question, then the West teams would OBVIOUSLY have a better record vs the East than the 2 East teams would vs the West...but they don't. Wanna know why? Because they're virtually similar, like I said. Like the records show. Like SRS shows.
That actually adds more weight to the fact that the West is superior at the top, and therefore the teams below the top teams would have less wins, as they have to play the other top 5 teams more often
quote:WTF? Cherrypicking? I've given you record, point diff, and SRS, and you call that cherrypicking?
Cherrypicking sucks when someone fact checks you
Keep on keepin on with you eye test though, I'm sure it's doing wonders!!! Thanks for the fact check that proved...oh I don't know that exactly what I said was 100% spot on. You really got me there!
This post was edited on 5/8/17 at 10:01 am
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:02 am to RedRifle
GTFO
Watching the NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs is awful. It's like the UNC men's team plays the Slippery Rock Womens team every fricking game....horrid, horrendous and just unfrickingwatchable
Watching the NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs is awful. It's like the UNC men's team plays the Slippery Rock Womens team every fricking game....horrid, horrendous and just unfrickingwatchable
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:05 am to shel311
Using the SRS arguments you are proving that Utah is better than Toronto and that Portland is better than Indiana. How does that possibly prove they are the same?
You cherrypicked here as well. Utah was 20-10 against the east. You used Portland to even it out.
quote:
2nd time, if this were the actual reason given for the 4 teams in question, then the West teams would OBVIOUSLY have a better record vs the East than the 2 East teams would vs the West...but they don't. Wanna know why? Because they're virtually similar, like I said. Like the records show. Like SRS shows.
You cherrypicked here as well. Utah was 20-10 against the east. You used Portland to even it out.
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:08 am to Buckeye06
quote:I'm proving that each 1st round opponent is on the same level, like I said. SRS shows you that.
Using the SRS arguments you are proving that Utah is better than Toronto and that Portland is better than Indiana.
quote:You're trying way too hard if you're going to use 5th vs 6th as your "gotcha" moment. No real need to debate, you're just trying really hard to be correct when all the data I've given you shows each round's opponent are on these same level. SRS, point diff, record. They're all on the same level, virtually the same exact level.
How does that possibly prove they are the same?
quote:
You cherrypicked here as well. Utah was 20-10 against the east. You used Portland to even it out.
I'm convinced you don't even know what the argument is at this point. Did I miss something, did GS actually NOT play POR in the 1st round of the playoffs? Were we not discussing the 2 teams GS played vs the 2 teams CLE played? Why in the world would I NOT use Portland? What are you talking about right now...
So far I've been accused of cherrypicking to compare teams because I used 3 great metrics...that compare teams. And in comparing the 2 teams GS faced vs the 2 teams CLE faced, I've now been accused of cherrypicking because i used the records of all 4 teams each has faced.
This post was edited on 5/8/17 at 10:10 am
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:10 am to Buckeye06
quote:That's irrelevant though in SRS since it uses point differential accounting for the strength of schedule, and therefore opponent's point differential.
and therefore the teams below the top teams would have less wins, as they have to play the other top 5 teams more often
So losing to GSW by a point(SRS = 11.35) should strengthen one's SRS more than beating Brooklyn by a point (SRS = -6.74).
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:18 am to shel311
quote:
Now all of a sudden, the East is easy.
I've been consistent in my stance that the east has always been a cakewalk.
Life in the West is different this year, though. The Warriors have an easier path than last year.
That dogfight with the Thunder in the WCF was the beginning of the end for GS last season.
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:18 am to shel311
quote:
cherrypicking
You cherrypicked by combining the 4 teams records to show how they played against the other conference. Utah had the best record against the other conference of the 4 teams you used. Portland had the worst.
Utah also has a higher SRS than any of the other teams in this argument.
You can't say the teams are on the same level, and then when you factually say it and it shows that Utah is better than the other 3 teams.
Utah is the best of those 4 teams according to 2 of your 3 metrics. Is that not factually accurate? And they are tied in the 3rd, is that not once again factually accurate?
So according to your metrics, is Utah the best team of those 4 or not?
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:26 am to Buckeye06
quote:Utah is essentially 0.35 points better than Toronto; when you account for schedule strength. So Utah is better, but that difference is not practically significant. Similarly, Portland is 0.44 points better than Indiana.
So according to your metrics, is Utah the best team of those 4 or not?
Overall, Cleveland and Golden State have a very similar strength of competition in the first two rounds.
This post was edited on 5/8/17 at 10:30 am
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:28 am to Buckeye06
quote:If we're discussing CLE's 1st 2 playoff opponents vs GS's 1st 2 playoff opponents, don't you want to look at how all 4 teams have fared? You want to look at ONLY Utah and leave out Portland while simultaneously saying I'm cherrypicking. That makes zero sense.
You cherrypicked by combining the 4 teams records to show how they played against the other conference. Utah had the best record against the other conference of the 4 teams you used. Portland had the worst.
quote:Yep, they do. Ever so slightly ahead of Toronto, and they have the same record, and TOR has the slightly better point diff....which again shows what I said was exactly correct, these 2 teams are virtually even/on the same level.
Utah also has a higher SRS than any of the other teams in this argument.
quote:They're on the same level.
You can't say the teams are on the same level, and then when you factually say it and it shows that Utah is better than the other 3 teams.
quote:According to 1 of 3 metrics. TOR is better according to 1 of 3 metrics. They're tied in the 3rd metrics. How dare I say they're on the same level!!!!
Utah is the best of those 4 teams according to 2 of your 3 metrics.
quote:No, it's not.
Is that not factually accurate?
quote:No, they're virtually even with Toronto, as i've said all along, and the data proves me to be correct.
So according to your metrics, is Utah the best team of those 4 or not?
It's so strange that you're taking something that is splitting hairs and acting like you've made some point about how it's sooooo obvious that Utah is better than Toronto.
The 2 teams GS has faced are virtually even compared to the 2 teams that CLE has faced. AGAIN, not sure why you want to argue against that, all the data says that is so.
Posted on 5/8/17 at 10:30 am to buckeye_vol
quote:I just don't really understand the stance he's trying to run with here.
Utah is essentially 0.35 points better than Toronto; when you account for schedule strength. So Utah is better, but that difference is not practically significant. Similarly, Portland is 0.44 points better than Indiana.
Overall, Cleveland and Golden State have a very similar strength of completion in the first two rounds.
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