quote:
2007, Rawlings made an all-time golf glove team. Griffey, Mays, And Clemente were their outfielders. To laugh at the notion he is "arguably" the best defensive outfielder of all time or to say that he isn't remotely close is fricking stupid.

Derek Jeter won 5 Rawlings gold gloves during his career, I really could give two shits who they think is the best defensively in 2007 because back then they were giving out gold gloves to guys who were solid/above average defensively and top notch offensively (or flat out mediocre or worse defensively in the case of Jeter).

It was more of a combination award than best defensive player award. Rawling did stupid shite like giving gold gloves to Rafael Palmeiro when he was playing most his games as DH, and gave a gold glove to freaking Raul Mondesi over Andruw Jones in 1997. It was only after they got called out repeatedly in the press and online for being morons that Rawlings switched to using some defensive stats to pick gold gloves. They've done much better job the last decade or two, but for a long stretch during the late 80s through the 2000s gold gloves were as much a popularity contest as anything else.

Because Jeter sure as hell wasn't the best defensive SS at any point in his career, much less the years he won it. And like I said, Griffey was elite for a good stretch in his early to mid 20s, but some of his last couple gold gloves weren't all that particularly earned though. And all the years that he played OF in Cincy and was a below average defensive OF exist, he was not good at all then, which counts against him. If we are judging someone as best defensive of of all time we are judging their entire career, not peak.

Like I said, if you want to call him the best all around OF of all time including defense and offense I can see it (though I'd still choose Mays). And as someone who watched his entire career his defensive peak was excellent, it just wasn't as good as Andruw. I mean, I was a huge Griffey fan and he was one of my favorite players of the 90s, he's just not the best defensive OF of all time.

This post was edited on 3/6/26 at 10:37 pm

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Posted by VerlanderBEAST

Member since Dec 2011

19352 posts

Posted on 3/7/26 at 10:40 am to lsu777

quote:
he was ahead of everyone one of those except bonds and maybe arod. Trout is the only other one like him

the fact you mention someone like ichiro or chipper in the same breath is laughable

griffey won 10 straight gold gloves

compare best 8 consecutive seasons and griffey beats everyone but Judge and Arod in home runs, 8 straight gold gloves

ill give you peak bonds, peak trout, peak arod, peak pujols and judge as an argument all day. Bonds is better, no questions asked. the others its comparable unless you put stock in WAR...i dont put a ton

but to put Chipper, ichiro, and manny in the same conversation is laughable. not even close. Even judge you are talking 1 more hr per year and thats only if you adjust the stats for 2020 to hypothetical. i mean in best 8 season, griffey averaged ~44 HR. from 96-99 he averaged 52 homers per season.

if you look at peak Ken Griffey which was 97-99- 160 homeruns, the 3 season total only ranks below sosa for 99-01(190), sosa for 98-2000(179), McGwire- 97-99 (178), Bonds- 01-03 (164) and Ruth 26-28(161)

look at best 5 seasons.....griffey ranks only behind sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Ruth and ahead of the others you named.

its not until you get to 7 years he falls out the top 5 and its still only dropping behind arod because griffey kept getting hurt.

you way way under estimate peak griffey and how good he was. He was the best centerfielder in the league for 10 years straight

1. Griffey's gold gloves are based entirely on reputation and highlights.

2. There's more to hitting than homeruns. Manny has a way better skillset as a hitter than Griffey. Never mind the fact that Manny is arguably the GOAT postseason hitter

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Posted by Nutriaitch

Montegut

Member since Apr 2008

10917 posts

Posted on 3/7/26 at 11:43 am to Lester Earl

quote:
Bonds had 10+ WAR That’s two all star seasons lol

Griffey had 100 fewer games and about 350 fewer plate appearances than Bonds.

yet had more
hits
homer
RBI
higher BA
nearly identical OBP
higher Slugging %
identical OPS+
more gold gloves
same number of Silver Sluggers

Bonds was a better base runner and stole more bases.

But Griffey was the best defensive Centerfielder in the league every hear and put up better hitting numbers just about across the board than Bonds did.

and he lost nearly an entire season’s worth of game in 94-95 due to the strike.

so his totals could very be closer to
1,160 hits vs Bonds with 984
230 homers vs Bonds with 176
700 RBI vs Bonds with 556

and Junior’s WAR would be a lot closer to Bonds too with an extra 120 or so games played.

Junior’s WAR would have almost assuredly been no worse than 9.0 (8.8 last full season before the strike, 9.7 first full season after). Probably closer to 9.3 or 9.5.
That closes that WAR gap significantly to more in range of 49.8 for Junior to 50.3 for Bonds.

so I stand by what i said.

Junior’s first 7 years were better.

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Posted by ifyoubuildit

Member since Jan 2018

366 posts

Posted on 3/7/26 at 11:55 am to ifyoubuildit

quote:
Overrated.

To the people on this board that gave my comment above 17 downvotes:

Consider this about Griffey:

1. He earned his way to zero World Series.
2. He made the playoffs 3 times. His team’s series record in these playoffs was 1-3, meaning he made it out of the first round just one time.

He had some nice personal accomplishments but nowhere near all the hype he got, considering he never elevated his teams. Contrast that with the greatest in any sport and you will see that championships are what move the needle the most.

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Posted by deltadummy