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How does draft pick tipping occur?

Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:21 pm
Posted by Keys Open Doors
In hiding with Tupac & XXXTentacion
Member since Dec 2008
31893 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:21 pm
There are two ways that Woj or Shams can be tipped off on draft picks. 1) A player's agent tells them or 2) A front office member of the drafting team tells them.

LINK So I just read this article that shows how the Hawks were planning to give up a future asset to move up from 19 to 17. However, when they saw that the Bucks drafted DiVincenzo, they didn't go through with the trade. The Hawks wanted Kevin Heurter or someone else, and when the Bucks picked DiVincenzo, the Hawks knew they would be guaranteed one of their two coveted players.

So clearly there is no incentive for front offices to leak picks. There is some mild incentive for agents to leak picks, but considering the fluid nature of the draft, especially after the top 3 picks, how do agents get guarantees from front offices in the 1-2 minutes preceding their selection? And what benefit do front offices get for doing this?

Most likely the Bucks lost a high second rounder in the 2019 or 2020 draft because of this.
Posted by PrimeTime Money
Houston, Texas, USA
Member since Nov 2012
27304 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:31 pm to
Woj throws wild sex parties for agents and front office members and simply asks for early draft pick confirmation in return.
Posted by Goldrush25
San Diego, CA
Member since Oct 2012
33793 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:37 pm to
I can see it being an advantage for the teams to leak their own picks in order to spur trade discussions.
Posted by Keys Open Doors
In hiding with Tupac & XXXTentacion
Member since Dec 2008
31893 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:38 pm to
Woj strikes me as the kind of guy who couldn't manage to pull of an orgy if he was given the Playboy Mansion, a 25 million dollar budget, and Mikhail Prokhorhov's phone contacts.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32373 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:42 pm to
I think it's front office folks who tip him off. Not GMs or anything like that, but people in the know in the front office.

Or it's Bryan Colangelo's wife.
Posted by BayouCatFan
Member since Jul 2008
4580 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:44 pm to
How do you know its done 1-2 minutes before the pick? I always assumed guarantees were given when a team worked out a player?

If it does happen right before a pick then maybe the team calls the kid or agent, just like the NFL, and ESPN doesn't televise, so that the viewer still gets all the drama?

Or maybe ESPN has team sources and speaks into Woj's earpiece to tell him what to say on air. All the people, on shows like Get Up and First Take, have earpieces in order to be fed info.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32373 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

How do you know its done 1-2 minutes before the pick? I always assumed guarantees were given when a team worked out a player?

Because a lot of the time the decisions are made last minute. There are trades that occur during the draft.

quote:

Or maybe ESPN has team sources and speaks into Woj's earpiece to tell him what to say on air. All the people, on shows like Get Up and First Take, have earpieces in order to be fed info.

Woj has been doing this since before he was with ESPN, and it's not just him that has the sauces. Shams and Stein do too apparently.
Posted by Keys Open Doors
In hiding with Tupac & XXXTentacion
Member since Dec 2008
31893 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

How do you know its done 1-2 minutes before the pick? I always assumed guarantees were given when a team worked out a player?


I think there are two different things going on. First, teams give guarantees to players. Yesterday, the Ringer flat out stated in the morning that there were several guarantees, including Chandler Hutchison at 22 to the Bulls. This promise was probably done before the NBA combine. So when the 21st pick went by, and Hutchison was still on the board, it would be very easy to deduce that he would be picked next. And he was.

However, in the same article they strongly imply that the Wolves promised DiVincezno at 20. So it's not at all intuitive that the Bucks would have picked him earlier than his "promised" slot.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421612 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:53 pm to
Id wager contacts inside the NBA offices
Posted by Keys Open Doors
In hiding with Tupac & XXXTentacion
Member since Dec 2008
31893 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:55 pm to
It just seems like it would backfire on the front office more times than not, like with the Hawks-Bucks example in the Deadspin article.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421612 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:57 pm to
No I mean subordinates of Silver in the NBA offices

That's the rumor of how Woj gets his scoops (by knowing when they are processing through the NBA offices)
This post was edited on 6/22/18 at 12:58 pm
Posted by Keys Open Doors
In hiding with Tupac & XXXTentacion
Member since Dec 2008
31893 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:59 pm to
Oh, I actually hadn't thought of that. You would think Silver would crack down on that big time.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32373 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 12:59 pm to
quote:

It just seems like it would backfire on the front office more times than not, like with the Hawks-Bucks example in the Deadspin article.

There's mutual benefit between the parties. The front office may leak picks to him, but in turn he may leak stories that benefit the team.

Just look at the Kawhi situation, you can tell that certain things were coming from the front office even though it wasn't specifically stated that way.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421612 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 1:01 pm to
I remember a few years ago they tried with fake trades or signings being processed to catch the mole but they failed
Posted by wildtigercat93
Member since Jul 2011
112238 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 1:03 pm to
It’s the same process as any information leagues from guys like Schefter. Those guys share information and in return the media guys will either give information back or will suppress other information they have that would be negative to that person, or will release a story that paints a certain picture

It’s a big scratch my back I scratch yours type system
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
115468 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 1:08 pm to
A story came out a few years ago about how Jeff Bower was one of Woj's biggest and most consistent sources. When Bower was fired late into the offseason by the then Hornets, Woj wrote a series of stories just excoriating the Hornets for the move.

As a result, its long been known that Woj has basically no sources whatsoever with the Hornets/Pelicans. Demps was obviously leaking stories to Stein, though.
Posted by David Ricky
Hailing From Parts Unknown
Member since Sep 2015
24182 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 1:09 pm to
quote:

There's mutual benefit between the parties. The front office may leak picks to him, but in turn he may leak stories that benefit the team.


This happened with Woj and Joe Dumars. Woj was always writing fluff pieces painting Dumars in a positive light when he was running the Pistons in the ground. In return, Woj was always getting the scoop on things from Dumars.

The NBA finally got sick of it and sent out some memos to all the teams but they changed the wording and content on each one to find the rat. Sure enough they traced it back to Dumars and personally fined him $500k for the leaks.

LINK


quote:

But to truly understand how Wojnarowski and his sources operate, there is no better place to look than his relationship with Joe Dumars, who worked as the Detroit Pistons president of basketball operations from 2000 to 2014.

Dumars was very successful for the first half of his executive career, assembling teams that won an NBA Championship and reached six consecutive Eastern Conference Finals. During his final six years in Detroit however—before he “stepped down” instead of being fired—the Pistons were one of the worst teams in the league, largely because of a series of disastrous decisions Dumars made. You would never know about it, though, if you read only Wojnarowski for your Pistons coverage.

With Detroit sliding down the standings, Wojnarowski broke nearly every significant—and insignificant—Pistons story for a half-decade: the Allen Iverson trade, the Amir Johnson trade, drafting Austin Daye, signing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, hiring John Kuester, trading Aaron Afflalo, signing Chris Wilcox, signing Ben Wallace, drafting Greg Monroe, signing Tracy McGrady, Rip Hamilton arguing with John Kuester, drafting Brandon Knight, hiring Lawrence Frank, re-signing Tayshuan Prince, re-signing Rodney Stuckey, trading Ben Gordon, signing Josh Smith, signing Chauncey Billups, signing Brandon Jennings, signing Josh Harrellson, and firing Mo Cheeks. While Wojnarowski was busy breaking news about the team, he wasn’t busy analyzing it: Between 2008 and 2012, Wojnarowski didn’t write a negative piece about Dumars or the Pistons, despite the fact that they had transformed from a perennial contender to an also-ran. Instead, Wojnarowski penned several sympathetic profiles of Dumars, including ones that covered his completion of his college degree and another wholly about his defensive skills as a player in the 1980s.

By 2012, Wojnarowski could no longer ignore how poorly Dumars was performing, so he wrote a piece on the Pistons’ rebuilding. It included heavy participation from Dumars and unearned optimism like “Slowly, surely, Dumars is regenerating the Pistons again.” In each of the two seasons after the piece ran, the Pistons went 29–53 and missed qualifying for the playoffs by nine games. It also emphasized Dumars’ strong relationship with coach Lawrence Frank, “who has returned accountability to the locker room.” Dumars would fire Frank six months later.

In 2010, the NBA fined Dumars $500,000 for leaking multiple confidential league memos to Wojnarowski, according to multiple sources. This matches the third largest publicly known fine the league has ever handed down. The NBA decided that too many memos were making it into the media, so they conducted a sting operation over several months. They would change a few words or numbers in different team’s copies of otherwise identical memos, so that when the memos leaked they could spot the small differences and trace them back to the leaker. This approach caught Dumars red-handed, as well as an executive from another team who was fined $12,500 for leaking to a draft-focused website. Joe Dumars, the Detroit Pistons, and the NBA all declined to comment on the fine.
Posted by BayouCatFan
Member since Jul 2008
4580 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 1:09 pm to
Why would they want the mole caught?

ESPN personalities discussing draft/trade/free agency rumors or scoops is great for the NBA. The NBA and ESPN are business partners and depend on one another for success.

Ratings would drop significantly if there was nobody like Woj amping up the drama. Plus, feeding him info gives ESPN credibility, which keeps people watching.

Good ratings for ESPN?NBA events is good and necessary for both parties.
Posted by wildtigercat93
Member since Jul 2011
112238 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 1:11 pm to
Jay Glazer is much more open about it but also claims that he never asks anyone for information, he’s just friends with these athletes and agents and they go to him and tell him to put it out there. That’s why his stuff is usually more accurate
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
30087 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 1:39 pm to
Rumors are one thing.

Playing out a 3hr ahead of time doesn't help anyone
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