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re: Has there ever been an NBA player teetering on greatness/irrelevancy as much as Hardwn?
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:37 am to dukke v
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:37 am to dukke v
I was kinda hoping you had found a player and tough series win where a team had an all NBA kinda player out. That would be impressive. Bc I can’t think of any. But many examples of losses for sure.
0
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:15 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Lebron - no AD, round 1 loss one year, no playoffs the next. No Kyrie, loses to GSW. Bron has never won a damn thing in the playoffs when he had key guys out.
How do you view Lebron James first trip to the NBA Finals? That was a very good Detroit Pistons team he beat. I vaguely remember 29 points in a row to win a game or something.
Lebrons last trip to the NBA Finals as a Cav included a team with no second best player. I believe he played every game that season including the playoffs and won a Game 7 in Boston to make the Finals.
Do these count?
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:21 am to LSUTigKyl
You trying to go back 20 years proves my point doesn’t it.
And Kevin love was of course the Cavs second best player. Basically a 20/10 guy who was a perennial all star before being forced into a tertiary role in CLE.
And Kevin love was of course the Cavs second best player. Basically a 20/10 guy who was a perennial all star before being forced into a tertiary role in CLE.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:24 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Name me a player who has won a big playoff series with his best teammate out. Not a first round series v a 8 seed
Steph was missing Kevin Durant during the 2019 Western Conference Finals vs. the #3 seed Trail Blazers after KD hurt his calf against Houston. Steph went on to average 37/8/7 WITHOUT KD and the Warriors swept the series. This performance fits all the criteria you laid out in your post.
Do you even watch basketball?
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 10:26 am
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:28 am to RebelTheBear
The warriors still had 2 other healthy hall of famers besides Steph 
when AD went down, Bron had zero
When Kyrie went down, Bron had zero
KD had zero healthy hall of famers when he lost to MIL
Harden w no embiid, not even an all star.
not exactly what we were looking for when we asked for examples
To quote a team who won 70+ games without KD.
We are looking for carry jobs where a guy had an inferior supporting cast and drug his team to a win. The warriors had the much better cast even without Kevin.
when AD went down, Bron had zero
When Kyrie went down, Bron had zero
KD had zero healthy hall of famers when he lost to MIL
Harden w no embiid, not even an all star.
not exactly what we were looking for when we asked for examples
To quote a team who won 70+ games without KD.
We are looking for carry jobs where a guy had an inferior supporting cast and drug his team to a win. The warriors had the much better cast even without Kevin.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 10:32 am
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:28 am to Boomshockalocka
Do you move goal posts for a living? So the 2007 Finals don’t count cause it was 15 years ago.
Kevin Love, come on man. But to further illustrate, Love didn’t play Game 7 against Boston that year. Wonder who won?
Kevin Love, come on man. But to further illustrate, Love didn’t play Game 7 against Boston that year. Wonder who won?
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:30 am to LSUTigKyl
If you are going back 15 years for an example, it proves my point that it happens VERY rarely. And that was a questionable example, at best.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:31 am to LSUTigKyl
Winning one game ain’t the same as winning 4. In fact it is 4 times easier.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:37 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
The warriors still had 2 other healthy hall of famers besides Steph
quote:
We are looking for carry jobs where a guy had an inferior supporting cast and drug his team to a win
This is the definition of moving the goal posts. I answered your question, you realized you were wrong, so you decided to alter the requirements you have in order to make my argument invalid.
Keep being you, Boom.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 10:39 am
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:40 am to RebelTheBear
sorry Maybe I didn’t explain well enough the first time.
I was looking for carry jobs with little help from supporting teammates.
GSW still had the 4 best player off a 70 win team.
Not exactly what we looking for if you were following the thread.
I was looking for carry jobs with little help from supporting teammates.
GSW still had the 4 best player off a 70 win team.
Not exactly what we looking for if you were following the thread.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:42 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
it proves my point that it happens VERY rarely.
We shift goalposts regularly in the NBA playoff threads here folks.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:44 am to Boomshockalocka
what would harden have to do/not do for you to assign him the blame for his repeated post season failures? Take a shite on the court and smear it on the floor?
there is a common denominator with every playoff run he’s had go up in flames. What has to happen before you can admit that he’s not the gamer you think he is?
James Harden has had HOF teammates at every stop in his career. He’s won nothing. There is likely no other current star player in the league who has had better support behind him. Durant (x2), Westbrook, Paul, Irving, embiid to start plus elite role players like ibaka, capela, tucker, etc etc etc
there is a common denominator with every playoff run he’s had go up in flames. What has to happen before you can admit that he’s not the gamer you think he is?
James Harden has had HOF teammates at every stop in his career. He’s won nothing. There is likely no other current star player in the league who has had better support behind him. Durant (x2), Westbrook, Paul, Irving, embiid to start plus elite role players like ibaka, capela, tucker, etc etc etc
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:45 am to whatiknowsofar
I never said theh would beat Miami without embiid. Assumption is embiid comes back for game 3 and theh win the series. The rest of the team is just not good enough to beat a tough team like miami. They have 3 playable players, harden Maxey Harris. No one else has done anything. Embiid makes 4. Then if green or NIANG have a good shooting game or 2 that is plenty enough to win 4 of 5.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 10:48 am
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:47 am to cgrand
he has had injured teammates going up against dynasties.
2022 - embiid hurt
2021 - harden and irivng hurt, lose to champs
2020 - Russ hurt, lose to champs
2019 - Paul a shell, lose to warriors dynasty
2018 - Paul hurt up 3-2, lose to warriors dynasty
Exactly what players are winning title when the next best player is hurt? Literally no one and on top of that he is going thru the warriors dynasty, not your middle of the road title team. . It has been a lot of bad luck.
I love the “he had a hall of fame teammate!!” Yea and was up against the warriors who had 3 and sometimes 4.
2022 - embiid hurt
2021 - harden and irivng hurt, lose to champs
2020 - Russ hurt, lose to champs
2019 - Paul a shell, lose to warriors dynasty
2018 - Paul hurt up 3-2, lose to warriors dynasty
Exactly what players are winning title when the next best player is hurt? Literally no one and on top of that he is going thru the warriors dynasty, not your middle of the road title team. . It has been a lot of bad luck.
I love the “he had a hall of fame teammate!!” Yea and was up against the warriors who had 3 and sometimes 4.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 10:51 am
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:54 am to Boomshockalocka
I read through the whole thread prior to responding. I'm aware of what y'all were discussing prior to my post, I just answered the question you wrote. Also, I wouldn't say Harden has gotten little help from his teammates in this series so far. Harris has averaged 24 PPG and Maxey has averaged 27 PPG, both shooting around or above 50% from the field. The problem has undoubtedly been James Harden who is averaging 18 PPG on 39% shooting.
ETA: I'll give you this - Niang and Green have been atrocious this series.
ETA: I'll give you this - Niang and Green have been atrocious this series.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 10:57 am
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:55 am to RebelTheBear
NIANG and Danny green are 3/25 on wide open 3s. Those are the shots Miami is giving up. They haven’t made them pay. They deny harden the ball, then double him, then “build a wall”. They won’t let one guy beat them. It is gonna have to be the role players making open shots.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:57 am to Boomshockalocka
Yeah I added that tidbit about Niang and Green afterwards. They've been bad and I'll absolutely concede that point.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 11:00 am to RebelTheBear
Spo is too good of a coach to let one guy beat him
Did you see what he did to poor trae last series? And trae had a better supporting cast than what Philly has sans embiid. Now harden hasn’t been nearly as bad as trae, but trae is top 5 offensive playwr, and he did nothing. Miami is gonna make the teammates beat them, when the help is this bad.
Did you see what he did to poor trae last series? And trae had a better supporting cast than what Philly has sans embiid. Now harden hasn’t been nearly as bad as trae, but trae is top 5 offensive playwr, and he did nothing. Miami is gonna make the teammates beat them, when the help is this bad.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 11:03 am
Posted on 5/5/22 at 11:19 am to Boomshockalocka
When we talk about the greats overcoming adversity in the playoffs, we will talk about Jordan winning game 6 with injured decoy Pippen, Lebron beating the GOAT reg season team with injured KLove.
But we won't talk about Harden. Now he's officially in that really good player that never won a ring. Sadly he had a chance to be the greatest to never win a ring, but I can think of other guys that earned that moniker over him now.
But we won't talk about Harden. Now he's officially in that really good player that never won a ring. Sadly he had a chance to be the greatest to never win a ring, but I can think of other guys that earned that moniker over him now.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 11:47 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:Yep, these amateurs just don’t get it… it’s because of Saint Jim’s greatness that Miamis up 2-0. He’s forcing Spo to scheme a winning plan.
They deny harden the ball, then double him, then “build a wall”. They won’t let one guy beat them.
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