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Has Anyone In The Sports Media Ever Heard Of Bart Starr?
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:42 pm
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:42 pm
He did quarterback the Packers to 5 NFL championships, including two in the Super Bowl era, but I haven't heard his name mentioned in the discussion of all-time greatest quarterbacks over the last couple of weeks. Is he being penalized because three of his championships came in the pre-Super Bowl era? That would be like discounting Joe DiMaggio's or Sandy Koufax's World Series triumphs because they all came in the pre-playoff era. There was pro football before Joe Montana, pro boxing before Mike Tyson and pro basketball before Michael Jordan, despite what today's sports pundits would have you believe. I'm too young to remember seeing a live Packers game during their glory years, but that's what ESPN Classic and Pro-Football-Reference.com are for. Besides being a three-time All-Pro, Starr was a two-time Super Bowl MVP and might have been a three, four or five-time MVP if his entire career had been played in the Super Bowl era. Is there a more underrated quarterback in NFL history than Starr?
16
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:44 pm to trackfan
it was such a different game then its tough to compare
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:44 pm to trackfan
quote:
Is he being penalized because three of his championships came in the pre-Super Bowl era?
Probably.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:46 pm to trackfan
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:51 pm to trackfan
No because he was the ultimate game manager, the original Russell Wilson. A lot of QBs would have looked good with Lombardi as their HC.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:51 pm to trackfan
quote:
There was pro football before Joe Montana, pro boxing before Mike Tyson and pro basketball before Michael Jordan, despite what today's sports pundits would have you believe.
I'll give you the football critique but strong no on the boxing and bball angle. Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:52 pm to Kafka
Pre baseball playoffs
Do not equal
Pre super bowl.
Do not equal
Pre super bowl.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:56 pm to trackfan
Different era and all that, but his 152/138 career TD/INT ratio probably has something to do with it as well. Those Packer offenses were built around Jim Taylor and Paul Horning and they really only threw when necessary. Nothing wrong with that since it worked for them, but that's one reason why Starr doesn't get mentioned in this conversation.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:56 pm to trackfan
Dad?
Posted on 2/2/15 at 9:57 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
strong no on the boxing
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:07 pm to Dr RC
quote:
it was such a different game then its tough to compare
Jim Brown, Mike Ditka, Johnny Unitas, Gale Sayers, Dick Butkus and Joe Namath all played in that era, but they don't seem to get short-changed like Starr does. Baseball seems to do a much better job of not letting you forget about the legends of yore than football. Nobody would try to have a discussion about the greatest hitter of all times without mentioning Babe Ruth.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:09 pm to Kafka
Kafka beat me to Otto Graham. He won a mere 7 titles. Also, Johnny Unitas won 4 titles. While we're just counting titles, which we shouldn't really do.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:11 pm to VADawg
quote:
Different era and all that, but his 152/138 career TD/INT ratio probably has something to do with it as well. Those Packer offenses were built around Jim Taylor and Paul Horning and they really only threw when necessary. Nothing wrong with that since it worked for them, but that's one reason why Starr doesn't get mentioned in this conversation.
All teams ran the ball more in that era, but that's because the rules back then made it much harder to pass than it is today, not to mention the indoor stadiums, the better playing fields and receiver's gloves which are 3 times stickier than bare skin. The gap between Starr's career passer rating and the average of his era is roughly the same as the gap for Brady and his era.
This post was edited on 2/2/15 at 10:13 pm
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:14 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:
No because he was the ultimate game manager, the original Russell Wilson. A lot of QBs would have looked good with Lombardi as their HC.
Can't you say the same thing about Brady. When Brady was hurt in 2008, Belicheck won 11 games with Brady's backup.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:19 pm to trackfan
In any objectively measured event (track and field/swimming, etc.), the times of today absolutely dwarf those from 50 years ago. How people can still compare athletes from those eras today is nonsensical.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:21 pm to TheWalrus
George Mikan is the GOAT NBA player. DWI.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:21 pm to Baloo
quote:This. 10 years in the NFL, 10 NFL Championship game appearances, 7 NFL Championships.
Otto Graham
If championships are truly the main measuring stick for QBs, there is no discussion, Graham is the GOAT.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:24 pm to MadMaxwell
4 of Otto Graham's championships came in the AAFC before the league folded and the Browns moved into the NFL in 1950.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:29 pm to TheWalrus
quote:
In any objectively measured event (track and field/swimming, etc.), the times of today absolutely dwarf those from 50 years ago. How people can still compare athletes from those eras today is nonsensical.
The best athletes of an era would have been among the best athletes of any era. The difference between athletes today and athletes 100 years ago is due to improved medicine, nutrition and training, not evolution. Therefore if Jesse Owens, Jim Thorpe, Mickey Mantle, Jim Brown or Roger Staubach were 25 years old today, they would all be bigger, stronger and faster versions of their original selves..
Posted on 2/2/15 at 10:32 pm to Chair
quote:
Pre baseball playoffs
Do not equal
Pre super bowl.
Why is that? These era are only two years apart - 1967 vs 1969.
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