re: Google Doc showing NBA MVP voting so far

Posted by Boomshockalocka

Member since Feb 2004

59894 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 9:45 pm to buckeye_vol

Well what you find in those numbers if you dig deeper is that westbrooks best teammate Adams and defensive stopper Roberson play 95% of their minutes with weatbrook. Oladipo 80% of min w him.

So it's not just when weatbrook is off he court the team is bad. It's because when he sits he sits with other best players.

Meanwhile when harden sits you got both Gordon and bev out there. Playing against mostly backups. It's a coaching decision that doesnt hold the weight you think it does when you look at WHO ELSE sits when weatbrook does.

Wouldn't expect you or anyone else to dig deeper that's where i come in

This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 9:50 pm

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Posted by texag7

College Station

Member since Apr 2014

41286 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 9:48 pm to Boomshockalocka

You edited to change Westbrook to weatbrook? You have issues

Posted by Boomshockalocka

Member since Feb 2004

59894 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 9:50 pm to texag7

Edited to add a sentence not interested in correcting a mistypes letter.

Can't challenge the post so you make up some stupid BS. Typical you.

This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 9:51 pm

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Posted by Corporal Beavis

Member since Aug 2013

1317 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 9:54 pm to Boomshockalocka

quote:
Can't challenge the post so you make up some stupid BS

Typical Boom

Posted by texag7

College Station

Member since Apr 2014

41286 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 9:55 pm to Boomshockalocka

You edited your post twice.

Posted by texag7

College Station

Member since Apr 2014

41286 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:21 pm to Corporal Beavis

Best part about this thread...

quote:
I've got it closer. Much closer to say the least. 5:42pm

quote:
my research shows it neck and neck 8:29pm

quote:
Haven't tabulated lately too many people are seeking out explanations right now. Once I get all of them straight I'll rerun my #s. 9:22pm

Posted by buckeye_vol

Member since Jul 2014

35379 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:22 pm to Boomshockalocka

quote:
Well what you find in those numbers if you dig deeper is that westbrooks best teammate Adams and defensive stopper Roberson play 95% of their minutes with weatbrook. Oladipo 80% of min w him.

So it's not just when weatbrook is off he court the team is bad. It's because when he sits he sits with other best players.

Yeah Westbrook is played 88% of his minutes with Adams (94% of Adams' minutes) and his 0.5 Box +/- (BPM) and 78% of his minutes with Roberson (92% of Roberson's minutes) and his 0.1 BPM.

On the other hand, Harden played 88% of his minutes with Ariza (94% of Ariza's minutes) who had a 1.7 BPM, which was third highest (Beverly was 2nd).

More importantly, while Adams had the second highest BPM on the Thunder, 6 players had a BPM as high or higher than Adams (including Harden), for a combined 6753 minutes.

Yeah. So yeah. You really bring up a good point, which I was trying to get across the other day. The Rockets won 55 games, and they are a better team when Harden is on the floor. Guess why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE FAR BETTER PLAYERS.

Posted by Boomshockalocka

Member since Feb 2004

59894 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:32 pm to buckeye_vol

"As I wrote Monday , of those that have done the most (Harden and Westbrook), Harden has made his team the best. Westbrook took what is at the very least a flawed team and made them good. Harden has taken his team and made it elite in the area he makes his impact (offense), which has contributed the most to wins. He does more than Leonard, and does what he does better than Westbrook."

-- James lead a group of role players to 9th best offense in League history.

-- Russ lead a group of role players to a below average offense (17th) this season.

But 2 free throw rebs is more important than that to the casual fan

These players only became much better players when paired with James. CC wasn't even supposed to be a playoff team according to many based on what we knew about these players preseason

Like the coaches said to Lowe: His creativity is what separates him from Westbrook. Harden is feared in coach's meetings around the league. Can't say the same for Westbrook

This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 10:34 pm

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Posted by Woopigsooie20

FREE HRV

Member since Mar 2010

60393 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:41 pm to Boomshockalocka

quote:
Can't say the same for Westbrook

But go ahead with the terrible narrative that Harden has worse players when he has shooters for days while Westbrook has maybe one and nobody can still stop him from getting to the rim even though everyone knows it'll happen, compared to HArden having the luxury of a plethora of shooters to hide his below average athleticism.

Posted by Boomshockalocka

Member since Feb 2004

59894 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:43 pm to Woopigsooie20

NBA coaches words not mine.

And better shooter isn't the same thing as better player. Shooting is one skill of many.

Oh yea btw harden has the best braking system ever recorded on an NBA player.

This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 10:45 pm

Posted by Corporal Beavis

Member since Aug 2013

1317 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:47 pm to Boomshockalocka

Hmm let's look at the role players on each team. Rockets have Ariza, Gordon, Anderson, williams, beverly, and capela. 3 of those 5 are great on offense while terrible on d.

Or Adams, oladipo, Kanter, roberson, and Gibson. Could throw McDermott. For a grand total of one shooter compared to Houston's infinite amount. Are you surprised harden led them to a better offensive season? That should be expected based on the role players capability

Posted by htran90

Member since Dec 2012

32262 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:48 pm to Boomshockalocka

I'm just gonna say. The amount of times I've seen "weatbrook", his auto correct seriously corrects to it I swear.

Posted by Boomshockalocka

Member since Feb 2004

59894 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:50 pm to Corporal Beavis

Oh the role players that harden recruited and hand picked. So now we punish him for going out and getting players who would fit with him. Nice.

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Posted by Corporal Beavis

Member since Aug 2013

1317 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:53 pm to Boomshockalocka

Not punishing him. Just saying getting players who are really good on offense generally equals higher offensive numbers. That shouldn't be a surprise. Credit to the rockets for managing to have a decent defense with those players but their role players are far and away better than RWB's.

Also when will they be giving the exec of the year award to harden? Same time as 2nd place mvp trophy?

Posted by buckeye_vol

Member since Jul 2014

35379 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:55 pm to Boomshockalocka

quote:
James lead a group of role players to 9th best offense in League history.

-- Russ lead a group of role players to a below average offense (17th) this season.

Let's look at Real Plus Minus (RPM) since it attempts to quantify the individual's unique contribution in net point differential.

Harden had 8 teammates who played >1000 minutes, 6 of them had a positive RPM and altogether their RPM summed to 7.45.

Westbrook had 7 teammates who played >1000 minutes, 3 of them had a postive RPM and altogether their RPM summed to -4.36.

Furthermore, Westbrook's RPM (+5.97) was 1.17 points higher than Harden's (+4.80).

So you're right. With a superior team around him, despite Harden's lower impact on the point differential, the Rockets had a better record than Thunder.

Posted by Boomshockalocka

Member since Feb 2004

59894 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:56 pm to Corporal Beavis

You're punishing him. You're holding it against him.

Westbrook offense is worse than Charlotte. Where's the offensive talent on that squad?

Meanwhile James offense is top 10 ever.

And you use the word "better" to describe the difference.

better doesn't begin to describe the difference in these offenses. The gap is too big to even compare the teams with a straight face.

Posted by buckeye_vol

Member since Jul 2014

35379 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 10:59 pm to Boomshockalocka

quote:
Oh the role players that harden recruited and hand picked. So now we punish him for going out and getting players who would fit with him. Nice.

He doesn't get punished for it, but it's still largely out of anybody's control, even the GM's to some degree. Besides you have a great GM to share the credit.

Posted by Boomshockalocka

Member since Feb 2004

59894 posts

Posted on 4/13/17 at 11:00 pm to buckeye_vol

quote:
BPM relies on a player's box score information and the team's overall performance to estimate a player's performance relative to league average. B

1. Hardens team is much better so his teammates will have a higher BPM bc of how it's calculated.

2. Westbrook is such a stat hog (we've all seen the Reddit article) that his teammates BPM will be lower than it should be bc of his rebounding

3. We've seen that the thunder are MUCH better when Westbrook has a usage below 40%. So his team is better when he does less.

Thunder are 26-12 when Russ has a usage rate below 40%. They are 20-22, when he's at 40% or above

This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 11:02 pm