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re: Freeh report is out: "PSU showed 'total disregard' for Sandusky victims"
Posted on 7/12/12 at 1:45 pm to Sophandros
Posted on 7/12/12 at 1:45 pm to Sophandros
quote:
You're seriously reaching here.
You're reaching in this whole argument. Bottom line is having the name removed is a negative consequence. What another way to describe a negative consequence? Oh yea, a punishment.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 1:50 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Bottom line is having the name removed is a negative consequence. What another way to describe a negative consequence? Oh yea, a punishment.
Who, exactly, is being punished again?
The name was removed so that the company could avoid negative consequences, not as a way to punish Paterno.
Ye Gods, man, are you really this stupid?
Posted on 7/12/12 at 1:52 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Who, exactly, is being punished again?
Do you think they would have kept the name up if Paterno was not dead?
Posted on 7/12/12 at 1:53 pm to LNCHBOX
I repeat:
Who, exactly, is being punished?
Who, exactly, is being punished?
Posted on 7/12/12 at 1:56 pm to Roughneck
This whole scandal just makes me sad. I admired Paterno because I thought he tried to do things the right way and I think on the balance he was a good person... but he went unchecked over the decades as the institution became subservient to his wishes and that lack of appropriate supervision was disastrous when one of his best friends turned out to be a monster.
It just makes me sad because it is so human to fail in this kind of way - and for the consequences of a failure to multiply and destroy so many lives. I think there is a strong comparison to the child sex scandals in the Catholic Church over the last few decades. I believe most of the people involved with those cover ups were people with good intentions and sadly their bad choices led to ruined lives.
To me the story must have started a couple decades before the incidents in 2001 or even 1998. Sandusky started the Third Mile charity in 1977 - and I just can not believe that this was an innocent association in light of the repeated incidents already documented.
I therefore can not believe that the people around Sandusky (esp including Paterno since he knew him well but also people like Sandusky's wife) did not see things and should have known what was going on for decades. I am inclined to give Paterno and Mrs Sandusky the benefit of the doubt if we want to argue they fooled themselves into not believing what they were seeing... but I simply do not find it credible to believe they did not see enough to conclude Sandusky has inappropriate relationships of a sexual nature with children prior to 2001. I think it is also debatable if that is really giving Paterno or Mrs Sandusky the benefit of the doubt given that this amounts to putting aside your concerns to protect a loved one at the expense of innocent third parties.
It just makes me sad because it is so human to fail in this kind of way - and for the consequences of a failure to multiply and destroy so many lives. I think there is a strong comparison to the child sex scandals in the Catholic Church over the last few decades. I believe most of the people involved with those cover ups were people with good intentions and sadly their bad choices led to ruined lives.
To me the story must have started a couple decades before the incidents in 2001 or even 1998. Sandusky started the Third Mile charity in 1977 - and I just can not believe that this was an innocent association in light of the repeated incidents already documented.
I therefore can not believe that the people around Sandusky (esp including Paterno since he knew him well but also people like Sandusky's wife) did not see things and should have known what was going on for decades. I am inclined to give Paterno and Mrs Sandusky the benefit of the doubt if we want to argue they fooled themselves into not believing what they were seeing... but I simply do not find it credible to believe they did not see enough to conclude Sandusky has inappropriate relationships of a sexual nature with children prior to 2001. I think it is also debatable if that is really giving Paterno or Mrs Sandusky the benefit of the doubt given that this amounts to putting aside your concerns to protect a loved one at the expense of innocent third parties.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 1:56 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Who, exactly, is being punished?
Answer my question.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:03 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Why does it have to be one or the other?
This. Not sure why the NCAA should avoid punishing the program just because the criminal and civil system are going to punish them as well.
Also, all this bullshite about "it's not in the NCAA bylaws" needs to go. It is not a gray area. Everyone at PSU knew what they were doing. If they get out of punishment from the NCAA because it is not expressly stated in the bylaws that covering up a child abuse scandal is wrong.
It reminds me of that scene on A Few Good Men where Cruise asks the guy how was he able to eat at Gitmo when the standard operating procedures did not addess the location of the mess hall.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:05 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Who, exactly, is being punished?
Answer my question.
Your question is irrelevant. They would have taken the name down either way. But doing so is NOT a punishment. That's the point, you dimwit.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:09 pm to Sophandros
quote:
You're basically saying that an assistant coach who joined the staff in, say, 2008, should be punished for something that he had absolutely nothing to do with.
Not quite. He is collateral damage. No one is saying that the innocent SHOULD be directly punished. However, it is assinine to think that this is not a problem that ws directly related to the PSU football program. So, how do you punish the football program?
Someone used this analogy earlier and I think it fits here well:
Should the court not sentence a murderer to life in prison because his imprisonment will destroy his innocent family?
In this case, the "murderer" is the football program. Will it suck for fans and those affiliated? Of course, but that should not grant the program a get-out-of-jail-free card
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:11 pm to Sophandros
So their action of taking his name down would not have been a result of JoePa's actions of covering up child rape. You do realize one action can have several implications right? So just because they took it down to avoid the negativity surrounding JoePa's name, it can also be viewed as a punishment. You're arguing semantics, and you look like a fool to anyone not trying to harp on one tiny insignificant point.
No shite the purpose was not to punish JoePa, but if you can't see that it can also be viewed as a punishment, you're not as intelligent as you claim to be.
No shite the purpose was not to punish JoePa, but if you can't see that it can also be viewed as a punishment, you're not as intelligent as you claim to be.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:19 pm to Ted2010
ESPN needs to take Matt Millen off the air. He's making a total fool of the network right now.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:22 pm to DrSteveBrule
is matt millen talking again or is this all replay from before?
This post was edited on 7/12/12 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:25 pm to LNCHBOX
What this report doesn't state is the root cause of this cover up. NCAA Football.
The 2 Janitors, Ginger, President, VP, AD, and Head coach weren't all great enough friends with Sandusky to cover this up. Perhaps Paterno was, but the rest didn't talk because of NCAA Football.
-The janitors were scared of getting fired.
-The Ginger was hired full time and promoted regularly within in the NCAA Football team.
-The President, AD, Paterno all operated scandal free for over a decade with no set backs to their Football team.
This is embarrassing to the NCAA as a whole. Just like the NBA ref scandal makes everyone wonder about corrupt refs. It makes the world wonder what other crimes schools have covered up for the sake of NCAA sports....
NCAA sports teams are getting too powerful. Too much money, power, and secrecy. NCAA needs to knock them down a peg.
The 2 Janitors, Ginger, President, VP, AD, and Head coach weren't all great enough friends with Sandusky to cover this up. Perhaps Paterno was, but the rest didn't talk because of NCAA Football.
-The janitors were scared of getting fired.
-The Ginger was hired full time and promoted regularly within in the NCAA Football team.
-The President, AD, Paterno all operated scandal free for over a decade with no set backs to their Football team.
This is embarrassing to the NCAA as a whole. Just like the NBA ref scandal makes everyone wonder about corrupt refs. It makes the world wonder what other crimes schools have covered up for the sake of NCAA sports....
NCAA sports teams are getting too powerful. Too much money, power, and secrecy. NCAA needs to knock them down a peg.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:28 pm to DrSteveBrule
I was dumbfounded when he was asked if this changed his perception of joe pa and he basically said that he's seen him do good things enough that covering up child rape is not enough to change his perception that joe pa was a good person that handled things the right way and was an honest person.
What. The. frick.
What. The. frick.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:33 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
So their action of taking his name down would not have been a result of JoePa's actions of covering up child rape. You do realize one action can have several implications right? So just because they took it down to avoid the negativity surrounding JoePa's name, it can also be viewed as a punishment. You're arguing semantics, and you look like a fool to anyone not trying to harp on one tiny insignificant point.
No shite the purpose was not to punish JoePa, but if you can't see that it can also be viewed as a punishment, you're not as intelligent as you claim to be.
No, YOU look like a fool for calling a business decision a punishment.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:33 pm to LNCHBOX
The pro/anti death penalty argument is getting redundant & neither side is budging, so get past it. The NCAA has used the death penalty exactly one time in its history & will never impliment to an institution, right or wrong, like Penn St. To me, with this report, the arguments should be more on what penalties should be handed down on those who did cover it up. I know one charge was perjury, but as I recall, there was another bout failing to report a felony? Anyone have any ideas what a criminal penalty mite be for that?
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:35 pm to Keltic Tiger
quote:
The pro/anti death penalty argument is getting redundant & neither side is budging, so get past it. The NCAA has used the death penalty exactly one time in its history & will never impliment to an institution, right or wrong, like Penn St. To me, with this report, the arguments should be more on what penalties should be handed down on those who did cover it up. I know one charge was perjury, but as I recall, there was another bout failing to report a felony? Anyone have any ideas what a criminal penalty mite be for that?
What about the "half death penalty?" NCAA dropped it on Baylor Men's Basketball in the 2000's. I think they should drop that on them.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:37 pm to Roughneck
I understand that JoePa thought he was doing the right thing by handing the situation over to the board, but he should have had enough common sense to follow through with the issues and not keep his head buried in the sand and see this monster around the campus with other kids.
I think they should have some sort of sanctions placed upon the AD department, but giving the football program the death penalty is extreme. None of the current players or fans had anything to do with this problem so why should they be the ones that 'suffer'?
I think they should have some sort of sanctions placed upon the AD department, but giving the football program the death penalty is extreme. None of the current players or fans had anything to do with this problem so why should they be the ones that 'suffer'?
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