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Formula 1 2020 Season Thread
Posted on 2/20/20 at 10:44 am
Posted on 2/20/20 at 10:44 am
Winter Testing
This week and next, the teams will be testing their 2020 cars at Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya. This will be their first opportunity to evaluate the performance of the cars and gather data to help them set the cars up for the races yet to come.
The big talking point early in the testing is Mercedes' new DAS system. Details are few but the system appears to change the toe-in of the front suspension during cornering. Personally I don't see how such a system is legal but I admit I'm no expert on the technical regulations. More here.
Something must be working for them as Bottas and Hamilton were 1-2 in yesterdays testing. They managed 173 laps between the two of them. They're obviously the team to beat again this year.
Racing Point - in particular Sergio Perez - look to be quite fast in the early going and are making a push to be the best of the rest. In fact Perez has been quickest so far in today's runs.
Max Verstappen of Red Bull was also in the mix yesterday, only a half second back from the Mercs.
Ferrari are quite far back (over a second) at this point. But they claim that they're not really pushing for speed yet. They're trying to correlate their on-track findings with the CFD and wind tunnel results. If you recall last year, Ferrari came out swinging and were much quicker than everybody else. Then they failed to back it up come race time. So maybe this is a new approach.
Haas are near the back of the pack. Like Ferrari they struggled to get the car setup in race trim last year. The Ferrari muscle was effective in qualifying but they couldn't get the tires working during the race. I'm hoping they learned from that and will have a better year.
I'm happy to see Williams showing better pace this year so far. I really felt for them last year and hopefully they will begin to rebound.
Kvyat in the newly-branded Alpha Tauri (formerly Toro Rosso) was right behind Max so maybe Honda has truly got on top of their engine issues from a few seasons ago. Renault and McLaren were behind Dani in the middle of the pack.
Should be interesting to see how it all shakes out. You can't read too much into these early results. A lot will change between now and Melbourne. Nevertheless it's nice to see some laps turned in (semi)anger.
Next Race - Australian Grand Prix, March 12-15 Melbourne Grand Prix Circuit (discussion starts on page 4)
This week and next, the teams will be testing their 2020 cars at Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya. This will be their first opportunity to evaluate the performance of the cars and gather data to help them set the cars up for the races yet to come.
The big talking point early in the testing is Mercedes' new DAS system. Details are few but the system appears to change the toe-in of the front suspension during cornering. Personally I don't see how such a system is legal but I admit I'm no expert on the technical regulations. More here.
Something must be working for them as Bottas and Hamilton were 1-2 in yesterdays testing. They managed 173 laps between the two of them. They're obviously the team to beat again this year.
Racing Point - in particular Sergio Perez - look to be quite fast in the early going and are making a push to be the best of the rest. In fact Perez has been quickest so far in today's runs.
Max Verstappen of Red Bull was also in the mix yesterday, only a half second back from the Mercs.
Ferrari are quite far back (over a second) at this point. But they claim that they're not really pushing for speed yet. They're trying to correlate their on-track findings with the CFD and wind tunnel results. If you recall last year, Ferrari came out swinging and were much quicker than everybody else. Then they failed to back it up come race time. So maybe this is a new approach.
Haas are near the back of the pack. Like Ferrari they struggled to get the car setup in race trim last year. The Ferrari muscle was effective in qualifying but they couldn't get the tires working during the race. I'm hoping they learned from that and will have a better year.
I'm happy to see Williams showing better pace this year so far. I really felt for them last year and hopefully they will begin to rebound.
Kvyat in the newly-branded Alpha Tauri (formerly Toro Rosso) was right behind Max so maybe Honda has truly got on top of their engine issues from a few seasons ago. Renault and McLaren were behind Dani in the middle of the pack.
Should be interesting to see how it all shakes out. You can't read too much into these early results. A lot will change between now and Melbourne. Nevertheless it's nice to see some laps turned in (semi)anger.
Next Race - Australian Grand Prix, March 12-15 Melbourne Grand Prix Circuit (discussion starts on page 4)
This post was edited on 3/9/20 at 10:19 am
22
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:09 am to MountainTiger
Always an exciting time of the year.
Can't wait to see how the other teams complain about the Merc's steering system. Maybe it's just for testing and not to be used during actual race laps.
The Netflix series returns next Friday as well. Really looking forward to watching the episode featuring the German GP and the complete shitshow from Mercedes at their home track.
Can't wait to see how the other teams complain about the Merc's steering system. Maybe it's just for testing and not to be used during actual race laps.
The Netflix series returns next Friday as well. Really looking forward to watching the episode featuring the German GP and the complete shitshow from Mercedes at their home track.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:22 am to MountainTiger
quote:
Racing Point - in particular Sergio Perez - look to be quite fast in the early going and are making a push to be the best of the rest. In fact Perez has been quickest so far in today's runs.
Scratch off the pink and last year's Silver Arrows livery is still visible underneath :)
This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 11:23 am
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:28 am to MountainTiger
quote:
The big talking point early in the testing is Mercedes' new DAS system.
LINK
That's one of the most innovative things we've seen in Formula 1 in years.
Yesterday all the talk was about Mercedes rear suspension giving them a game changing amount of rear downforce and now this. This might be a long year unless you're a fan of the Mercs.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:31 am to JoeHackett
While I'm excited about this season, I'm still thinking it will be more of the same like we saw last year with the Mercs, Ferrari, and Red Bull being the teams to beat.
Wish we could fast forward to next year, and the chaos that hopefully the new car design will bring.
Wish we could fast forward to next year, and the chaos that hopefully the new car design will bring.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:34 am to JoeHackett
quote:
This might be a long year unless you're a fan of the Mercs.
I'm not but mostly because I'd like to see more parity, especially among the big 3. However, I totally agree that it's very innovative. You have to hand it to them for thinking outside the box. Still, I don't see how it jives with this:
quote:
Article 10.2.3 is explicit that any adjustment to the suspension system can only be made when the car is stationary.
"No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion," it states.
Article 10.2.2 states: "Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of any suspension system is forbidden."
ETA: Apparently it's not that new of an idea. Ferrari had something like this a few years ago. They abandoned it because it created a "dead zone" in the steering right in the part of the corner where drivers need a lot of feedback. Vettel and Kimi disliked it and so they gave up on the idea. What Mercedes has done now is they've eliminated the dead zone.
This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:59 am to MountainTiger
Ah, winter testing.
Alain Prost works all winter to develop the new McLaren, puts up all the fastest times, then Senna comes in from his off-season vacation, and runs faster than Prost.
Alain Prost works all winter to develop the new McLaren, puts up all the fastest times, then Senna comes in from his off-season vacation, and runs faster than Prost.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:05 pm to MountainTiger
I think you're probably right but they obviously are saying that the FIA has been aware of this for some time.
Here's Renault's reaction to the video
LINK
Here's Renault's reaction to the video
LINK
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:12 pm to JoeHackett
quote:
Here's Renault's reaction to the video
@ the look on Abiteboul's face.Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:13 pm to MountainTiger
I’m still a new fan to F1 so it’s been rough getting my head around the lack of parity between teams. I really enjoy the different variables that teams use but it’s a lot of information sometimes.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:22 pm to Monday
quote:
I’m still a new fan to F1 so it’s been rough getting my head around the lack of parity between teams.
This is really the least appealing aspect of F1 to me. However, it's always been this way and will likely always be this way to some degree. The amount of money that the top teams can afford to spend is staggering and the Haases and Alfa Romeos of the world simply can't pump that much money into it. But that's what you get in a virtually unlimited class.
That's why they change up the formula every now and then, to throw a spanner into the works and create some chaos for a little while. Next year will hopefully be pretty entertaining.
This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:02 pm to MountainTiger
I've been listening to the Missed Apex podcast since able the last 2 or 3 races of last season, did I understand correctly that 2021 regulations will have a spending cap to try to lesson the gap?
The next few weeks will be fun, winter testing, Drive to Survive Season 2 comes out next week(2/28), then first race of 2020 in Australia a couple weeks later. I'm new to watching but had just assumed it would be a few more months until the season started, it's right around the corner.
On a sidenote the new Alpha Tauri might be my favorite color scheme on the grid.
The next few weeks will be fun, winter testing, Drive to Survive Season 2 comes out next week(2/28), then first race of 2020 in Australia a couple weeks later. I'm new to watching but had just assumed it would be a few more months until the season started, it's right around the corner.
On a sidenote the new Alpha Tauri might be my favorite color scheme on the grid.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:18 pm to JoeHackett
Now instead of having 3-4 tracks a year the Merc wasn’t the most suited car, they’ll just dominate them all.
And if they’re not trying to hide the DAS system and making it widely known, imagine the real tricks they’re actually hiding.
(Like back when Lotus had their team conceal and dramatically cover their rear as a ruse so no one would notice the side skirts & their added downforce effects)
And if they’re not trying to hide the DAS system and making it widely known, imagine the real tricks they’re actually hiding.
(Like back when Lotus had their team conceal and dramatically cover their rear as a ruse so no one would notice the side skirts & their added downforce effects)
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:19 pm to YOURADHERE
Correct, there's a $175 million spending cap, a limit on wind tunnel testing and some spec parts.
Here's my somewhat cynical take on all that.
1. I'm wondering how many teams hit that $175MM cap now. Maybe I'm wrong but that seems like an awful lot of money for a team like Haas to be throwing around.
2. They already have limits on the number of engines and transmissions a team can use in a season -- all in an effort to reduce costs. And Draconian grid penalties are imposed if you exceed the limits. But you rarely see Mercedes and Ferrari take those penalties. It's always the likes of Renault and McLaren.
3. There have to be hundreds of ways to cook the books to hide how much a team is really spending.
Here's my somewhat cynical take on all that.
1. I'm wondering how many teams hit that $175MM cap now. Maybe I'm wrong but that seems like an awful lot of money for a team like Haas to be throwing around.
2. They already have limits on the number of engines and transmissions a team can use in a season -- all in an effort to reduce costs. And Draconian grid penalties are imposed if you exceed the limits. But you rarely see Mercedes and Ferrari take those penalties. It's always the likes of Renault and McLaren.
3. There have to be hundreds of ways to cook the books to hide how much a team is really spending.
This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:35 pm to Monday
quote:
I’m still a new fan to F1 so it’s been rough getting my head around the lack of parity between teams.
The F1 mentality is that it's an engineering series—the innovation and differentiation between the cars is the main feature. For the last few decades that means that one to three teams typically dominate the season.
In a given season, so few cars have a chance to win a race, that the eventual champion really only has to beat three guys on a regular basis and maybe five to seven guys total. This is why I don't understand why F1 is revered, even among drivers, as the "pinnacle of racing." It's the pinnacle of fast cars (although the WEC has as much innovation) and the pinnacle of high salaries and enormous budgets.
IndyCar is looked down upon by F1 fanboys because the cars are mostly spec, but that very feature makes IndyCar a far more competitive series. I'm a big fan of both F1 and IndyCar because they offer unique styles of racing (which is also determined by the rules regarding full-course yellows, refuelling, tires, etc.).
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:52 pm to Bro Montana
quote:
Wish we could fast forward to next year, and the chaos that hopefully the new car design will bring.
(For newer fans)
2009 was an amazing year for F1. Major rule changes changed the look of the cars, but the "double-diffuser" loophole saw the former Honda team (turned into Brawn-Mercedes) dominate the 1st half of the season, with Button building up a huge lead. By the 2nd half of the season Red Bull had caught up with Brawn (speed-wise) and was catching up in the standings. Curiously, Button struggled and his teammate Barrichello regularly beat him towards the end of the season. Button hung on for dear life, but he won a surprising driver's championship for the formerly struggling team.
Then 2014 brought the hybrid era. Red Bull, which had dominated the previous four championships, suddenly struggled (and some would say Vettel was exposed), and Mercedes rose to dominance.
Hopefully 2021 will also have a surprise shift in form between the teams.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:53 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
I couldn't agree more, Touched. Well said. F1 is more about the cars than the racing. If you want to see good open wheel racing, IndyCar is your series. Although there are teams that dominate the sport like Penske and Ganassi, even Rahal wins some races now and then. Even the smallest teams are competitive. But people turn their noses up at it. "Oh, it's a spec series!" That said, I'd hate to see F1 turned into IndyCar. The engineering is amazing and I'm an engineer so I can appreciate what goes into designing and building these cars.
And if you want to see real innovation and good racing at the same time, WEC is where it's at, particularly the GT class. (Something needs to be done to bring manufacturers back into LMP1. It's gotten cost prohibitive to the point that Toyota is really the only team still running a hybrid LMP1 anymore.) Speaking of which, the first race of the season starts tomorrow at Circuit of the Americas. The main problem with this series is that there are only 4 races on the calendar: COTA, Sebring, Spa and Le Mans.
And if you want to see real innovation and good racing at the same time, WEC is where it's at, particularly the GT class. (Something needs to be done to bring manufacturers back into LMP1. It's gotten cost prohibitive to the point that Toyota is really the only team still running a hybrid LMP1 anymore.) Speaking of which, the first race of the season starts tomorrow at Circuit of the Americas. The main problem with this series is that there are only 4 races on the calendar: COTA, Sebring, Spa and Le Mans.
This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 2/20/20 at 6:36 pm to MountainTiger
You mean technical regulations.
Sporting regulations pertains to every aspect of the sport outside the car.
Sporting regulations pertains to every aspect of the sport outside the car.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:24 pm to MountainTiger
quote:
And if you want to see real innovation and good racing at the same time, WEC is where it's at, particularly the GT class.
Sadly the uber political BS of the FIA seems to be destroying the WEC’s top class. Hypercar is Dead in the water with Aston Martin pulling their program. IMSA is on the right track with LMDh, hopefully they can get back to the GT1 days of racing.
The Rolex 24 has had some phenomenally close racing over the past few years in DPi and in GTLM, should be exciting to see the expanded field in 2 years.
Posted on 2/21/20 at 7:44 am to MountainTiger
Based on reddit it seems like the argument for DAS being legal is that it is not a change to the suspension, but rather a steering input no different than turning the wheel.
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