re: Do any fans of a successful CFB program bitch about their coach more

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That being said Arkansas offering him alot of money doesn't mean much to me

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Some one who's job depends on him hiring a good football coach thought enough of Miles coaching to talk to him coaching his team. That's a lot more telling than what message board posters and radio hosts say.

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Let me know when Texas, Alabama or USC come calling.

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Alabama did call him before, but coaches almost never go from one big program (LSU to USC, or Texas) to another. The last lateral move like that was probably Franchione going from Alabama to A&M. Texas and USC didn't have openings when Miles was a viable candidate at OSU.

LINK

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To me the Les bashing comes in with clock management and offensive play calling

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There's a difference between valid criticism and comments like the ones I've been responding to in this thread.

the clock issues are over blown imo, it boils down to 2 frick ups. Play calling is always bashed with 20/20 hindsight. Bama fans were bashing the play calling in the A&M game. I'm more concerned with OL play and having an O ranked in the lower 1/3 or so for 5 years than a couple of play calls that didn't work.

I do think the offense should perform better, but LSU has been able to consistently finish with one of the best records in the country and in the SEC, despite playing difficult schedules (even by SEC standards). Miles has had essentially one bad season, 2008, and we still won 8 games and spent most of the year ranked. That's the model of consistency, which is what I want out of my head coach: wins.

LSU has been in an innumerable number of close games over the past five years. It's not my problem, or his, that you can't let go of the ones he lost and not the large majority of those that he won. Sure, the OM game was a screw up. It was also four seasons ago and the loss cost LSU nothing (we still finished 2nd in the West which we would have anyway, and went to the Citrus Bowl, which we would have gone to had we won).

Most programs have QB issues and the program goes into the toilet. LSU has QB issues, and while the offense struggles, the team keeps winning. And this is supposed to be a negative for Miles? I don't get it.

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the clock issues are over blown imo, it boils down to 2 frick ups.

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If you can only think of two frick ups then I can see why you would think it is an overblown issue. It is a situational awareness issue more than anything else. Which includes the clock issues.

This thread is entertaining. I think my favorite part is that someone actually thinks that bowl game teams are chosen based on how much the coach is liked/respected.

The problem with Miles at LSU is that overall, he has been VERY successful...moreso than most (both at LSU and anywhere in the country in any 5+ year span), so when gripes about him and the program arise, it seems like people are only happy with winning a NC every year. And that's not really the case despite how it seems. The problem comes in because there are actually legitimate gripes that can be made about Miles...gripes that are based in reality (as opposed to what I'll call "ranter delusion") and very much have merit. Like the QB situation the last 4 years, for example. Or the OL struggles. Or other things ranging from clock management to losing control of the team/players at times. All of those things are legitimate gripes, yet some people will still point to his overall record and say that anyone who complains is just bitching for no reason and is insatiable. And that's simply not true at all.

Miles is sort of an eingma because he is very successful, while at the same time he is infinitely frustrating. And at some points it seems like he does just enough to skate by (and even get raises) when by most accounts he should be doing better than he does.

I've never been a fan of Miles. I don't really hate him, I just don't particularly like him...and that doesn't matter to me. I don't need to like someone as long as they get results, and for the most part, Miles has done that. But that doesn't mean that he is immune to criticism. Hell, I would love to have someone better be our coach, but I am also realistic and logical enough to know that that's not an easy task, and more than likely Miles is the best option for now.

like i said on the rant earlier, this is just a frustrating time to be an LSU fan

it's not the worst, but it's just difficult to watch the same issues on offense since 2005 and in game management keep coming up

that makes it really frustrating is watching Alabama do what they're doing. we could be doing that, and most fans know it. 2012 is really frustrating b/c after last year we were told that 2012 was supposed to be our year, and we have 3 losses ALL THE WHILE this was supposed to be a "down" year for bama and they're in the title game

so that whole thing creates a bunch of anger, but then we aren't really bad, and we know it can get worse, so we're just kind of...stuck in neutral. i'm becoming apathetic b/c i've seen this whole thing before...over and over

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I've never been a fan of Miles. I don't really hate him, I just don't particularly like him...and that doesn't matter to me. I don't need to like someone as long as they get results, and for the most part, Miles has done that. But that doesn't mean that he is imune to criticism. Hell, I would love to have someone better be our coach, but I am also realistic and logical enough to know that that's not an easy task, and more than likely Miles is the best option for now.

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I think this is a perfectly honest and rational statement. But I think the telling part is the "I've never been a fan" part. People, not to single out Cocomo who is making legitimately valid criticisms, tend to make facts fit their initial perceptions. We don't want to change our opinions.

To flip it around, I never liked Saban. I don't like Bobby Knight style coaches and think the world would be a better place of the Dictator Coach had been relegated to the dustbin of history. There's no evidence that you have to be a jerk to win. But Saban has gotten results at Bama (like he didn't really do here aside from 2003). I'm not immune from the same thing I'm pointing out here.

It's just that legitimate discussion points get lost in people's delusion. The criticisms of Miles are way out of proportion to his sins. It's not that he's perfect or immune from criticism, it's just that so much of the criticism lobbed his way is so ridiculous, it becomes too easy to dismiss the valid criticisms as well, as we're taking out all of the trash.

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It's not that he's perfect or immune from criticism, it's just that so much of the criticism lobbed his way is so ridiculous,

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well a lot of the praise and "defender canon" of miles has shown to be bullshite, too

remember when miles was defended with the following

1. great guy who took all the blame for the kids
2. players like him so much they stayed
3. made great coaching hires
4. won his bowl games
5. honorable man who wouldn't saban us

1. miles has gotten snarky and blamed players for issues the past couple years, and then there is the "clock it" debacle that defied all rationality

2. they seem to leave whenever they can more often than not. this offseason may be BAD

3. malleveto and then our offensive coaching issues post-jimbo put a black eye on this. ensminger is also inexcusable

4. 1-3 the past 4 bowl games

5. he's held us up for pay raises 2-3 times now...with this past year being just blatant. i have nothing against a guy getting more money when he can, but don't create this image of miles (especially in comparison to saban) about his honor that just isn't there. miles and saban are both opportunists, but lots of our fanbase only likes to paint saban in that light and it's just hypocritical

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1. great guy who took all the blame for the kids
2. players like him so much they stayed
3. made great coaching hires
4. won his bowl games
5. honorable man who wouldn't saban us

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Don't hurt yourself blowing over that strawman. That was never really the defense of Miles. It's always been this: he wins. A lot. More than anyone in LSU history. And yes, he is not a jackass.

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That was never really the defense of Miles.

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all of those points were argued about miles with me over many years. all of them

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It's always been this: he wins. A lot.

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i know, which is why it's frustrating as hell right now because he does win a lot, but we never seem to play to our potential in any given year.

it could be a lot worse, but we're honestly in neutral. the "defend Les at any cost" faction (which i'm not saying you are) seems to have the expectation that the team should only win as much as LSU did under hallman, and anything above that is awesome

is it wrong to have expectations?