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re: Did Curry just have the worst finals for an MVP, ever?
Posted on 6/22/16 at 11:54 am to buckeye_vol
Posted on 6/22/16 at 11:54 am to buckeye_vol
quote:Shel is very rational. I am interested to see him respond to this
In the final 3 games of the OKC series, Curry averaged 32.7/7.7/7.3 and shot 47% from 3. His average game score 27.2.
Two days later, he had the worst game of the entire playoffs. Did his injury worsen on his rest days?
0
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:19 pm to Goldrush25
quote:The issue is guys, like myself, who say this are getting hit with a lot of "excuses" and "hate" talk, when all we're saying is basically something the vast, vast majority of folks are saying.
He played badly because of many reasons. Being hurt was just one of them.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:22 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:How dare people say he had multiple issues that may require surgery when that was what many outlets were reporting.
Nope. He actually said quite the opposite, that is no surgeries are planned for him over the summer. People were yelling through the rooftops that after the finals were over he would get multiple surgeries lol
Can you believe they said that!!!!!
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:22 pm to shel311
quote:But blaming it on a reason without any actual evidence of it being a factor relies on circular reasoning.
The issue is guys, like myself, who say this are getting hit with a lot of "excuses" and "hate" talk, when all we're saying is basically something the vast, vast majority of folks are saying.
His strong performances the week before the finals, against a great team, make the injury explanation questionable.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:24 pm to cas4t
quote:Yikes.
Steph did not look even a step slower, at all
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:26 pm to shel311
quote:Although this is straight line speed, but according to sportsvu data, Steph was faster post-injury compared to pre-injury.
Yikes
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:28 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:Pick and choose, nice. And for the series?
In the final 3 games of the OKC series, Curry averaged 32.7/7.7/7.3 and shot 47% from 3. His average game score 27.2.
quote:Injuries can slow you down, doesn't mean you literally can't ever play well. Wouldn't you agree?
Two days later, he had the worst game of the entire playoffs. Did his injury worsen on his rest days?
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:30 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:FWIW, in reality, there's no more evidence on your end to actually prove it was just good defense, so that works both ways.
But blaming it on a reason without any actual evidence of it being a factor relies on circular reasoning
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:34 pm to shel311
quote:FWIW, I'm not arguing it's good defense of any specific reasoning. I'm just arguing that Steph gets worse every year in the playoffs, injury or not. Given the lack of evidence to indicate that he was injured in the Finals, concluding his poor play was due to injury, is pure conjecture.
FWIW, in reality, there's no more evidence on your end to actually prove it was just good defense, so that works both ways.
I'm not discounting it as a possibility, but for a guy that values objectivity, your arguing from a purely subjective perspective. FWIW, I expect better out of you.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:36 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:Do you think Steph wrapping his shoulder and icing it up was for show?
I'm not discounting it as a possibility, but for a guy that values objectivity, your arguing from a purely subjective perspective. FWIW, I expect better out of you
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:40 pm to shel311
quote:No, but that's not something unusual 100 games into a season for any player. That's different than some random injury.
Do you think Steph wrapping his shoulder and icing it up was for show?
Steph gets worse in the playoffs, and his play had dropped significantly in both NBA finals. Maybe as a shooter, like JJ Reddick in the NCAA tournament, it gets harder on him (whether fatigue, the defensive intensity, is the bumps and bruises) him BUT that's not the same as some uncontrollable injury.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:42 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:Maybe it's a bit of both.
Maybe as a shooter, the wear and tear is harder in him BUT that's not the same as some uncontrollable injury.
quote:Which is it, he gets worse, or he played exceptional the week before in the WCF? it can't be both.
Steph gets worse in the playoffs
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:46 pm to shel311
quote:It can be both.
Which is it, he gets worse, or he played exceptional the week before in the WCF? it can't be both.
Steph's drop-off in the playoffs still makes him a top-tier player. BUT the drop off has been magnified in the Finals both this year and last. Something (or somethings) else (it is a the same opponent) is signicantly contributing to this unrelated to any injury.
The only reason I brought up the playoffs drop off is because YOU brought up that his numbers were worse than the regular season. That's the norm for him though, even though he still plays great.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:48 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:Much like he can be injured and CLE could have played exceptional D on him.
It can be both
Also, not sure how you say it can both, he can consistently get worse as the playoffs go on, but be exception in the WCF. That's almost by defintion, the opposite of what you're saying.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:53 pm to shel311
quote:Except I can't conclude anything about an injury.
Much like he can be injured and CLE could have played exceptional D on him.
quote:He still played slightly worse than the regular season (game score of 21 vs. 24 during regular season), it's just that this is a general trend, NOT some unexpected drop off that must be due to injury.
Also, not sure how you say it can both, he can consistently get worse as the playoffs go on, but be exception in the WCF. That's almost by defintion, the opposite of what you're saying.
He still played great. I mean besides games 1 and 7, he still played pretty well (compared to everybody else) in the Finals, just with his personal downward trend.
My point is that we can't conclude anything about an injury without getting into unsupported circular reasoning, unless further information is revealed.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:05 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:You can't definitively conclude it was the Cavs defense or he just chokes under pressure either, so...
Except I can't conclude anything about an injury.
quote:Same goes for anything else you conclude.
My point is that we can't conclude anything about an injury without getting into unsupported circular reasoning
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:17 pm to shel311
He absolutely could not have performed how he did in games 6 and 7 against OKC with a material injury. So, unless something happened between game 7 and game 1, I do not think an injury played any material part in his poor play. Plus, my own eyes saw him move fine
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:18 pm to shel311
quote:OK. Well tell that to somebody that is coming to that conclusion.
You can't definitively conclude it was the Cavs defense or he just chokes under pressure either, so...
quote:Of course. That's why I don't profess to know the reason.
Same goes for anything else you conclude.
BUT it is more logical to conclude it is something more naturally related to basketball than some injury.
Besides, there is a negative trend with his game score and the the playoff game progression (-0.40 correlation; excluding the game that he only played a few minutes).
He got worse as the playoffs progressed, but while this trend was evident (I wish I could show the scatterplot), you wouldn't be able to identify some injury as a cause.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:20 pm to shel311
quote:Well, he WAS in the Western Conference Finals.
Not awesome by Curry's standards, it's a pretty sizeable amount below his shooting standards.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:20 pm to lsupride87
quote:Offensively, when he was all of a sudden not nearly as aggressive going to the rim where he excels post-injury? And when he did he wasn't remotely as successful post-injury as he was pre-injury. That was as clear as day IMO.
Plus, my own eyes saw him move fine
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