re: Colorado and Deion: You know it's bad when you've lost Joel Klatt

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He could walk away after the season, and the AD would consider it a success.

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Guess they really are just playing for clicks if you have this mindset

You're confused.
That is not a mindset.
That is simply a (hypothetical) reaction to people attempting to portray Colorado as a failure (that they hope for). I'm just saying that the season has already been an extreme success from the perspective of the AD.

Imagine how high their scores would've been if the recruiting sites didn't miss so badly on Shedeur. (Ranked the #28 transfer player by 247, and #130 by On3.)

You seem way too emotionally invested in Deion and Colorado. How long have you been a Colorado fan?

I know what you were referring to. And you don't get it.

How many times did the Saturday pregame shows go to Boulder when MM was racking up 6 wins in two seasons after 2012?
How many times did Colorado get ratings boosts during those years like they've gotten this season?
Did they gain fans and supporters all over the country like they've had this season?
Did the local economy see a boost like it has this season?
How many threads right here on the illustrious MSB when MM was the coach?

Where's that number, bro?

So then you admit they're playing for clicks. I already said he's done a great marketing job. I don't think we're disagreeing there.

But from an actual results on the field, wins and losses standpoint, he hasn't proven anything there that others haven't already done in the past that you handwaved away in a previous post, further cementing my point that wins are secondary to ratings and exposure in your mind. And I don't say that to say he can't win more in the future and will never be good because he very well might and I'm interested to see how it plays out.

But as of now all you're doing is saying Deion is a great hype man. Jury's still out on actual coaching ability and building or sustaining a successful program. You can't be hovering around .500 forever and continue to bring up "muh ratings" as a distraction from what's going on on the field.

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But if you equate the hype and marketing as this wildly successful season when coaches in the past have done bigger turnarounds as far as wins go, then you are by definition "playing for clicks" because the wins seem to be 2nd to exposure

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This fair. But I think Deion thinks that the clicks and exposure will attract better players and coaches and ultimately lead to more wins. And I think a big part of the reason why people want to see him fail is because they feel like that’s backwards—you’re supposed to win, then get the hype. And Deion may be flipping that paradigm upside down, and it upsets certain people. They think it’s not fair, that he “jumped the line” so to speak.

And I’d say they’d have been right 10, 15, 20 years ago. But in 2023, hype plays. Attention is attractive. So while you kind of downplay marketing as a legitimate coaching skill, I’d disagree and say it’s one of the most important skills a college head coach can have. Coaches have to sell themselves and their programs. Hell, look at what old white curmudgeons like Saban and Kelly have resorted themselves to.

And when you don’t have actual skins on the wall yet like Deion doesn’t, you have to lean into that skill even harder. And Deion not only has that skill, he may be one of the best marketers/self-promoters in American history. Dude is one of the handful of people to both host Saturday Night Live and be the musical performer during the same show. Why wouldn’t he leverage that skill? He’d be an idiot not to.

But people are going to have to eventually realize that the path to the top of certain positions isn’t going to look like it has for most of our lives. I read somewhere this week where Kim Kardasian has the most recognizable female face in the world. She certainly didn’t take the traditional path. Neither did Donald Trump when he became president. Much like Kim Kardasian, during the 80s, Trump entered the American pop culture zeitgeist and basically became famous for being famous. And was able to leverage that into becoming the biggest tv star in America during The Apprentice’s run, and finally becoming President.

We can hate that these folks didn’t have to take the traditional paths of our ancestors, but it’s the way it is now. You can take a new, different route and wind up at the same place. It doesn’t have to look the same as it did before. And that’s what Deion’s taking advantage of. Again, we’ll see if he’s committed long-term to doing this. I’m skeptical. But if he is, I think he can be successful.

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I appreciate the thoughtful analysis, but what bro said is not fair because I never said "wildly successful" or anything about "wins being second to exposure".

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You said if he left after this one year it would be considered a success and the AD would be happy. So by saying that, your definition of success must lean more heavily towards media coverage than on field results if you really believe that. I just thought that was an asinine thing to say.

No I don't think the AD would be happy if Deion left this year. For one he would have to do yet another coaching search, and none of the new fans would stick around for Colorado without Prime, and the season results as far as wins and losses are not going to be anything to brag about, and there would likely be an exodus of players that a new coach would have to deal with. They would be in a big bind if Prime bounced after 1 year.

Now if he stays long enough and builds an actual winner, then some fans may continue to root for them after Prime kind of like there are still fans of Miami from when they were the cool team to root for. But one season is not going to make fans stick around.

Wins and building a program don't just happen in a vacuum.
All sorts of factors go into these processes.
Different programs have to do it in different ways.
Colorado doesn't have the recruiting advantages, high revenue, history and tradition, etc., of others.
There's something that does take precedence over winning in my mind, but it sure as frick isn't the "hype" that you're obsessed with. It's doing things "the right way" which is nebulous, but everyone has a standard of it to varying degrees.

How would they ever get the media coverage without Deion?
How would they get all the high-level speed athletes from states like Florida without Deion?
How would they get NFL Hall of Famers hanging around campus and helping players at practice?
How would they get the ratings?
How would they get the economic boost?

You don't get it.
Wins don't immediately just start happening at a broken program like Colorado. Not only is it a process, but it also takes something to make up for the disadvantages I referenced.