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Started By
Message
re: Bird or MJ?
Posted on 4/30/22 at 3:41 pm to LSUFanMizeWay
Posted on 4/30/22 at 3:41 pm to LSUFanMizeWay
1
Posted on 4/30/22 at 6:41 pm to Zoso
Here ya go.
Bird finished 2nd in the MVP voting in 1980-81 to the popular Dr. J by a score of 454-423 points in one of the closest votes ever. Bird hadn't paid his "dues" yet as a youngin-bumpkin so it went to the classy media friendly elder statesman. Writers are like that...fickle reasons. See when Jordan didn't win MVP.
Bird beat Dr. J for home court advantage in the playoffs, beat Philly 4-3 in the Eastern Conference Finals and won the NBA Title.
Bird outscored Dr. J 26.7 to 19.9 ppg in the Conference Finals, led all players in rebounds and was second on Boston in assists. He also hit the winning shot in the final minute of game seven to break an 89-89 tie that gave Boston an epic 91-90 win.
Posted on 4/30/22 at 7:19 pm to lsudepression
MJ, but Bird over anyone else. He’s #2 all time.
Posted on 4/30/22 at 7:22 pm to TigrrrDad
MJ never beat Bird in a playoff game.
Not a single game.
Not a single game.
Posted on 4/30/22 at 8:07 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Did they Photoshop a modern uniform on Bird? I don't remember the Celtics wearing that shite back then.
Posted on 4/30/22 at 8:20 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Bird finished 2nd in the MVP voting in 1980-81 to the popular Dr. J by a score of 454-423 points in one of the closest votes ever. Bird hadn't paid his "dues" yet as a youngin-bumpkin so it went to the classy media friendly elder statesman. Writers are like that...fickle reasons. See when Jordan didn't win MVP.
Bird beat Dr. J for home court
advantage in the playoffs, beat Philly 4-3 in the Eastern Conference Finals and won the NBA Title.
Bird outscored Dr. J 26.7 to 19.9 ppg in the Conference Finals, led all players in rebounds and was second on Boston in assists. He also hit the winning shot in the final minute of game seven to break an 89-89 tie that gave Boston an epic 91-90 win.
First of all, MVP is a regular season award not a postseason award so I’m not sure why postseason performance is ever mentioned in these MVP arguments. Second, all of the advanced statistics (WS/48, PER, Box Plus/Minus, VORP) favored Dr. J over Bird that season.
Posted on 4/30/22 at 9:41 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
I still don't understand Pat Riley's quote after all these years:
“If I had to choose a player to take a shot to save a game, I’d choose Michael Jordan. If I had to choose a player to take a shot to save my life, I’d take Larry Bird.”
Uh...okay. But if Larry Bird can save your life (which is more important than a game) can't he at least also save a game?
My favorite way to read this quote, thought probably not the intended one, is that Michael Jordan cared a lot about whether he won, but wouldn't really give a shite if someone else lived or died.
Posted on 4/30/22 at 10:42 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:
First of all, MVP is a regular season award not a postseason award so I’m not sure why postseason performance is ever mentioned in these MVP arguments
Because we see the end results. Voters are projecting also. And sometimes we see the reality head to head when it matters. As for regular season, both Philly and Boston had identical regular season records. Boston got the higher seed because they beat Philly head to head.
Posted on 4/30/22 at 10:52 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:.
all of the advanced statistics (WS/48, PER, Box Plus/Minus, VORP) favored Dr. J
Yeah...that's how 50 year old lazy fat slobs voted in 1981. Bird was new and basically didn't talk to the media except in monotone retelling of the game. Dr. J held court for the media.
Voters weren't use to the intangibles back then, unselfish passing, rebounding...it was I'm getting mine who scores the most league... See Kareem's MVPs during that time frame.
And that's just one year. Bird should've won 5 MVPs but we were coming off the 70s and nobod who covered the game believed in the early earl 80s that a white guy could play as good as a black guy let alone be the best player in the league. Bird had to win a title to prove his worth and start winning MVPs. Dr. J could lose titles and still win MVPs.
There hasn't been a player where the media and general fandom was rooting harder for to win a title than Dr. J.
This post was edited on 4/30/22 at 10:59 pm
Posted on 5/1/22 at 2:17 am to lsudepression
The answer is MJ. But the reality is Bird was very close.
Posted on 5/1/22 at 8:33 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
The answer is MJ but the reality is he could never beat Bird, couldn't get past prime Bad Boys and it took him 6 years to win a ring because he had Boston in front of him.
Bird had Dr. J and the All-Star Philly teams who were supposed to win it every year but every year became wait till next year...this had been going on since '76...even before Bird entered the league.
But Bird won a title his second year going through Philly and then beating the Rockets. His rookie season, Boston improved its win total by 32 games from the year before he arrived and finished first in the Eastern Conference... The team had the same roster from the year before but simply added Bird. The greatest single season turnaround in history.
The year before Jordan arrived, ths Bulls finished the season 27-55, with Jordan, they finished 38-44...Finishing 3rd in the Central Division.
In the playoffs, Bird was 12-12 against Dr. j, 12-3 against Moses Malone, 4-1 against Barkley, 11-11 against Isiah, 6-0 against Jordan, 10-5 against Nique, 5-4 against Ewing (old Bird), 4-2 against Hakeem, 2-0 against Gervin.
The only greats of the late 70s or 80s that Bird doesn't have a winning record against in the is Magic and Kareem. But for the others he has a whopping regular season winning record against the greats as well as a majority playoff record.
Bird had Dr. J and the All-Star Philly teams who were supposed to win it every year but every year became wait till next year...this had been going on since '76...even before Bird entered the league.
But Bird won a title his second year going through Philly and then beating the Rockets. His rookie season, Boston improved its win total by 32 games from the year before he arrived and finished first in the Eastern Conference... The team had the same roster from the year before but simply added Bird. The greatest single season turnaround in history.
The year before Jordan arrived, ths Bulls finished the season 27-55, with Jordan, they finished 38-44...Finishing 3rd in the Central Division.
In the playoffs, Bird was 12-12 against Dr. j, 12-3 against Moses Malone, 4-1 against Barkley, 11-11 against Isiah, 6-0 against Jordan, 10-5 against Nique, 5-4 against Ewing (old Bird), 4-2 against Hakeem, 2-0 against Gervin.
The only greats of the late 70s or 80s that Bird doesn't have a winning record against in the is Magic and Kareem. But for the others he has a whopping regular season winning record against the greats as well as a majority playoff record.
This post was edited on 5/1/22 at 8:39 pm
Posted on 5/1/22 at 10:00 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
Did they Photoshop a modern uniform on Bird? I don't remember the Celtics wearing that shite back then.
You don’t remember his nickname “Larry Leg Sleeve?”
Posted on 5/1/22 at 10:13 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:Astounding drivel.
Voters weren't use to the intangibles back then, unselfish passing, rebounding...it was I'm getting mine who scores the most league... See Kareem's MVPs during that time frame.
Posted on 5/1/22 at 11:00 pm to Damathe
Consensus opinion in history.
Take a good hard look at the overwhelming critics of 70s NBA and why the league was floundering friend. And then get back to me with facts. It was a selfish league and even the selfish players from that era admit it.
Take a good hard look at the overwhelming critics of 70s NBA and why the league was floundering friend. And then get back to me with facts. It was a selfish league and even the selfish players from that era admit it.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:40 am to Goldrush25
quote:
He's saying that Jordan was so talented that making game-winning shots was routine for him.
If he needed someone to rise above their normal capabilities for a particularly high-pressure moment he'd pick Bird because he apparently believes Bird will refuse to fail at that moment.
That's not how I took it. Riley was saying that Jordan cared a lot about winning but not a lot about people.
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