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Message
re: Barry Bonds: It would mean a lot to me to make the Baseball Hall of Fame
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:25 am to Bestbank Tiger
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:25 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
But it's not just the cheating--the power numbers were so grossly inflated in that era that they're meaningless. So the writers will discount them accordingly. That's why McGwire should never sniff the HOF. He's a .260 hitter, and he's the equivalent of a player with only 400 or so home runs in a normal era.
Now this agree with 100%. All players numbers should be calibrated based on the era they played in, whether they played before or after the dead-ball era, the 15-inch mound era, the DH era, the amphetamine era or the steroid era. At one time, spit balls were legal, and after they were banned, the pitchers who were already throwing spitballs were grandfathered in and allowed to continue throwing spitballs for the rest of their career. Certainly their numbers showed be adjusted accordingly. If Bonds hadn't played in the steroid era, he probably would have hit about the same number of home runs as his godfather Willie Mays (660).
0
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:27 am to hendersonshands
quote:
Best baseball player of all time,
trollololol
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:34 am to Bestbank Tiger
McGwire is a borderline guy who I would vote for most years. But I think you're underestimating him a little bit. He's 13th all time in wRC+, which is a stat that compares players' complete hitting production with others in the league adjusted for park factors. He was a very good hitter.
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:42 am to Bench McElroy
The Baseball HoF is stupid. The voters love the power they have and are ridiculous.
The problem is they shouldn't be ignoring history. Baseball itself is at fault for not policing itself with these issues. I would vote the best players in as it is so stupid what they do.
I also think it is dumb how they make such a big deal about making people wait a couple of votes to get in to make a point. That is also stupid.
The problem is they shouldn't be ignoring history. Baseball itself is at fault for not policing itself with these issues. I would vote the best players in as it is so stupid what they do.
I also think it is dumb how they make such a big deal about making people wait a couple of votes to get in to make a point. That is also stupid.
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:44 am to Colonel Flagg
The Baseball Writers Association is the one who still allows stupid people to vote. That's the problem.
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:44 am to hendersonshands
quote:
Best baseball player of all time
swing and a miss
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:50 am to trackfan
quote:As soon as he was caught, he was ejected from the game and suspended 10 games. He was also elected in 1991. How many writers:
Let's not forget about Gaylord Perry, who actually got caught cheating on the field, but got voted into the Hall of Fame anyway.
a) voted for him,
b) are still voting writers today, and
c) would not vote for a player today because of PED's?
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:51 am to Bench McElroy
braves were after b-bonds or g maddux..i wished they would have got bonds instead. would have been awesome to see him hit 80 hr's as a brave. hank would've been even more pissed though. 
Posted on 11/30/13 at 9:54 am to Skillet
quote:
braves were after b-bonds or g maddux..i wished they would have got bonds instead. would have been awesome to see him hit 80 hr's as a brave. hank would've been even more pissed though.
Barroid* and the Braves would have created an epic black hole of postseason choke
Posted on 11/30/13 at 10:03 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Barroid* and the Braves would have created an epic black hole of postseason choke
bonds mostly choked against the braves...the greatest regular season manager in the history of baseball, bobby cox would have won 2 ws with barry.
Posted on 11/30/13 at 10:04 am to ballscaster
quote:
As soon as he was caught, he was ejected from the game and suspended 10 games. He was also elected in 1991. How many writers:
a) voted for him,
b) are still voting writers today, and
c) would not vote for a player today because of PED's?
Are the ballots secret? If so, I don't know how you find out who voted for who. Peter Gammons has been writing for the Boston Globe since 1969, but how do you find out who he voted for? One thing to keep in mind is that you need 75% of the vote to get in.
Posted on 11/30/13 at 10:21 am to trackfan
quote:LINK
Are the ballots secret? If so, I don't know how you find out who voted for who. Peter Gammons has been writing for the Boston Globe since 1969, but how do you find out who he voted for? One thing to keep in mind is that you need 75% of the vote to get in.
Of the 725 BBWAA members that had votes in 2009, 198 of them, or 27.3%, had votes in 1991 when Gaylord Perry was voted in with 77.2% (using Perry as an example because we talked about him and he gives a bit of generational perspective). It can be safely assumed that the percentage of current BBWAA voting members who had votes in 1991 is less than 27.3%, indicating an inevitability that the vast majority of current voting members who openly refuse to vote for PED users had nothing to do with the inductions of anyone before 1991.
In this debate, I think that it is important not to forget that. We're calling people hypocrites for something they just had nothing to do with.
Posted on 11/30/13 at 10:28 am to trackfan
BBWAA doesn't announce HOF votes. They've announced MVP, Cy Young, etc. for the last two years.
So we don't know what dumbass gave Aaron Sele a Hall of Fame vote
So we don't know what dumbass gave Aaron Sele a Hall of Fame vote
Posted on 11/30/13 at 10:44 am to trackfan
You come off as a dumbass in this thread......just saying! 
Posted on 11/30/13 at 11:17 am to ballscaster
quote:
Of the 725 BBWAA members that had votes in 2009, 198 of them, or 27.3%, had votes in 1991 when Gaylord Perry was voted in with 77.2% (using Perry as an example because we talked about him and he gives a bit of generational perspective). It can be safely assumed that the percentage of current BBWAA voting members who had votes in 1991 is less than 27.3%, indicating an inevitability that the vast majority of current voting members who openly refuse to vote for PED users had nothing to do with the inductions of anyone before 1991.
Thanks for the info. Based on the figures you've presented, I think we can safely assume that a majority of those 198 writers who were around in 1991 are hypocrites.
However, as far as I'm concerned, I think Perry is less deserving than the pre-2003 steroid users. I equate Perry to the post-2003 steroid users like Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez and Ryan Braun. I equate Bonds and Clemens to the pre-1920 spitball pitchers. Baseball knew that spitballs were a problem, but it wasn't until 1920 that it instituted an actual enforcement policy banning them.
Anyway, check out what Mike Schmidt said in an article from the New York Times about amphetamine and steroid use, keeping in mind that he was inducted into the Hall of fame in 1995.
LINK
Posted on 11/30/13 at 11:20 am to Bench McElroy
The HOF is meaningless and basically devalues every player currently in it as a result if Bonds is left out.
Posted on 11/30/13 at 11:22 am to hendersonshands
quote:
Best baseball player of all time, if he's not in the Hall of Fame then it means nothing.
The all time hits leader isn't in the Baseball HOF. It already means nothing
Posted on 11/30/13 at 11:23 am to Bench McElroy
Most players were/are juicing. Pitchers too. I would vote him in if I had a vote.
Posted on 11/30/13 at 11:40 am to hendersonshands
quote:
Best baseball player of all time, if he's not in the Hall of Fame then it means nothing.
Posted on 11/30/13 at 11:48 am to John McClane
The most fun I've had watching baseball in my lifetime was watching Sammy and McGuire blasting so many bombs they saved baseball, and Bonds incredible year. It seemed like if the pitcher threw him a strike it was gone.
I think they all should be in. Even Pete Rose.....he had 4,000 hits!!!
There's so many articles about the players of past taking substances that would be deemed illegal today.
LINK
I think they all should be in. Even Pete Rose.....he had 4,000 hits!!!
There's so many articles about the players of past taking substances that would be deemed illegal today.
LINK
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